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Sonic Mania Plus (Consoles Physical; PC Digital) - Non-Leaks Thread Mighty and Ray Are Back In Town

#61 User is offline sms skull leader 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 12:41 AM

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View Post/dev/sr0, on 16 March 2018 - 11:35 PM, said:

View Postrebelcheese, on 16 March 2018 - 11:34 PM, said:

Just give Amy the Peel-Out as her exclusive version of the Spin Dash and problem solved. Her hammer swing can operate like the Insta-Shield in practice too.

That's all you have to do to make Amy play like the others, now build her from there.

Does she curl anyway in the stage parts that force you to curl?
Or maybe she'd be short enough to just fit through there when she's fully leaned forward running??


If you mean the "S" shapped tunnels, she does curl in them in Sonic Advance.

Anyway, thinking over what E-122 said, the reason why Amy's abilities would be hard to implement is something that happens if the original game code does not accomodate certain actions /attributes from the start. However, a code that were to be built from the beginning to do so like it was the case of Sonic Advance would not result in such issues such as figuring out how to make a specific move work because the resources would already be there. In this case, a sequel would definitively be the best place to feature Amy rather than add her as an afterthought.

Still, not changing my opinion regarding Mighty/Ray because if they do turn out to be Sonic clones, this would be a situation of quantity over quality. However, if they do turn out to be something more unique, then that would give rise to the question of why this effort was not given to a character with more presence in the franchise?

View Postsonicblur, on 16 March 2018 - 11:45 PM, said:

-1 for Amy, since nobody's doing it. I didn't like playing as Amy in Sonic Adventure and the Sonic Advance series. Her gameplay replaced simple, streamlined gaming mechanics with something slower and more complex instead. It's a completely different gameplay flow than the rest of the characters. Even Blaze was more consistent with the gameplay of the classic series than Amy was. It's a platformer, not a fighting game. If the combat was more enjoyable, or if they give Amy a gun or something, then perhaps it could help, but well designed Sonic levels are paced such that melee combat does not work well.


I could argue that Amy's advance gameplay has it's positive qualities, such as:

* A unique gameplay that not only features abilities exclusive to her, but also something that neither Tails or Knuckles offer: balance. Where those two do everything Sonic does plus more, effectively reducing the protagonist character, with Amy you have an actual balance where one character's weaknesess are the other's strengths and viceversa.

* The lack of roll doesn't hurt the gameplay, since rolling was never an absolute need to build speed. All character can achieve this by jumping at the right moment off of slopes and other curved surfaces. For example, jumping off the middle of a loop is a better alternative to rolling, and unlike rolling, it is a more involved action with a risk/reward factor to it.

* Offers a more substantial alternative for those players willing to test their abilities with a more technical approach, something that I do not find in a cast that consist of two additional characters who are derived off the protagonist's moveset, on top of how they ultimately end up feeling samey.

Personally, I think that when playing as Amy, the result will reflect the skill of the player as well as how well they understand the mechanics of the Genesis games. If the challenge is too much, one can always go back to the more safe options that essentially play the same.

Lastly, the argument of this not being a fighting game doesn't hold because platformers come in different styles. You have those where landing over your enemies is all you need, others where you have to manually attack, others where you shoot, etc. Sometimes breaking out can result in a new challenge that in instances, can be just as much, if not more enjoyable than the original style. I like for example playing as a sword wielding character in a Contra game (Sayuri from Hardcorps Uprising), and a similar thing I can say about Amy, since the character still plays by the same rules, but adds some twists to them. If you don't like it then that's your opinion just like how I have mine and can develop on why I think it's an addition that sadly got overlooked for a criminally long amount of time.
This post has been edited by sms skull leader: 17 March 2018 - 12:59 AM

#62 User is offline RikohZX 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 01:28 AM

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I still don't agree with the whole one-button rule they used for Mania, even if they broke it just a little with the Super transformations post-launch, but a varied playstyle like Amy can only work with two buttons if we really go by pre-established game design; something Mania is very keen to adhere to. But this also means that I really hope Mighty and Ray get something unique to them that really stands out, instead of basically being Sonic and Knuckles hybrids.

#63 User is offline Capper 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 06:22 AM

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Going back to one of Mania's files (Objects2.gif to be more clear), it seems that Mighty and Ray were planned to be playable very early on. I'm assuming what was once thought to be an A is simply a misinterpreted R.
Posted Image

#64 User is offline Laura 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 06:42 AM

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Not particularly thrilled about Mighty and Ray. Mighty has some appeal, but Ray is pretty boring and is just a curiosity character for me. Hopefully they can do something exciting with him. I would have preferred Amy or even one of the Chaotix over him. I'm hoping that they've done this to save Amy for a possible sequel.

But all Mania news is good news for me. I'm excited, and curious for Encore Mode.

Is there going to be online for the multiplayer?

#65 User is offline big smile 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 07:19 AM

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I am glad that it is Taxman and Stealth who are bringing back Ray and Mighty. If it was anyone else, I'd be disappointed that they'd just be cluttering up the franchise with more clone characters. But Team Mania did an excellent job of creating routes that made Sonic, Tails and Knuckles feel like unique experiences, so I am sure they will do the same for Mighty and Ray.

I just hope they bring back shields in the bonus stages, because in contrast to Sonic 3, it was harder to explore as Sonic without easy access to the shield abilities.


View PostCapper, on 17 March 2018 - 06:22 AM, said:

Going back to one of Mania's files (Objects2.gif to be more clear), it seems that Mighty and Ray were planned to be playable very early on. I'm assuming what was once thought to be an A is simply a misinterpreted R.
Posted Image


Hmmm... I wonder if maybe the A could have been Amy? Anyway in this interview Iizuka talks about maybe seeing Mighty in a future classic game, which again suggests they were thinking about it for a while.

#66 User is offline doc eggfan 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 07:54 AM

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Does anyone else imagine Mario in the Tanooki Suit as the moveset for Ray the squirrel, or is it just me?

#67 User is offline synchronizer 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 08:19 AM

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Can we already pre-order the physical version?
This post has been edited by synchronizer: 17 March 2018 - 08:29 AM

#68 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 09:11 AM

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Ray's blue shoes are officially canon now.

#69 User is offline Epicsuperleader 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 09:13 AM

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View Postsynchronizer, on 17 March 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

Can we already pre-order the physical version?

According to the panel, preorders will open this Monday, I hope we get a trailer than showing a little bit of encore mode and mighty and Ray.

#70 User is offline Tiller 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 09:13 AM

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I never asked for this but I'm really glad this happened. Mostly because no one in their wildest dreams ever thought this pair would ever be relevant again. I can easily sacrifice a playable Amy on a bloody alter to the gods if it means fucking Ray and goddamn Mighty of all characters are not only featured but playable. Ray especially since he has absolutely no established classic moveset. I really hope his inevitable glide ability ends up a momentum influenced one.

#71 User is offline Laura 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 09:14 AM

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I get that Ray's abilities could be interesting, but his design is just so fundamentally boring to me. I can't really see how they could make him interesting visually.

#72 User is offline steveswede 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 09:30 AM

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I can sypathize with the bitterness over Ray being in instead of Amy but this is really his first 2D game so it's something fresh for once. Anyway if Mania 2 is in the works and Amy is in I have no doubt Amy would be a free update for Mania 1. Amy is too much of a fan favourite in the retro games to just ignore completely.

#73 User is offline Aquova 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 09:33 AM

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I'm excited that Sega is supporting Mania so much, with a new animation and DLC less than a year after release.
I am surprised to see that they're adding new characters over new levels. I'm sure the characters will have interesting, unique movesets, but some of the levels in Mania felt very Sonic-centric. Even playing as Knuckles in some cases felt like he was added in after the fact. I'm hoping the new characters don't clash with the existing level designs too much, but I'm very enthusiastic.

#74 User is offline synchronizer 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 09:35 AM

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By the way, did they describe what encore mode really is?

#75 User is offline big smile 

Posted 17 March 2018 - 09:48 AM

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View PostLaura, on 17 March 2018 - 09:14 AM, said:

I get that Ray's abilities could be interesting, but his design is just so fundamentally boring to me. I can't really see how they could make him interesting visually.


Ehh... I agree his design is bland, but in Sonic Arcade, Ray was portrayed as a goofy, slightly crazy character. His animations brought him to life and made him seem unique. We don't really have an eccentric character in the franchise (Charmy is more hyperactive than crazy. I suppose Eggman and Amy have an element of madness to them, but it's not in the same way).

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