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Sonic 2 Simon Wai Proto 20th Anniversary 20 Years of Discoveries

#61 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:52 AM

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View PostBlue Spikeball, on 13 May 2018 - 11:48 PM, said:

View Postsonicblur, on 13 May 2018 - 10:39 PM, said:

View PostBlue Spikeball, on 13 May 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

Whoa, I think I may have come across that page once or twice. In fact, the other day I was reminiscing about that time I first saw the "Dust Hill" pic on some page with a simple layout and no background circa '99. I couldn't read it since I was poor at English back then, but I recall being completely baffled by the pic.

How did you find that, sonicblur? Did you have the URL written somewhere?

I was going through old threads from AFSH (The sonic usenet newsgroup, alt.fan.sonic-hedgehog) from 1998, looking for information to help Cooljerk with his research on this topic. The site predated Jan's Area 51, and people linked to it when the topic of Hidden Palace came up. I was finding a bunch of good posts to piece together history a bit better, like the Sonic Crackers ROM had already been floating around for a while at that point. And some people thought Genocide City was level cut from Sonic 1 prior to Andre Dirk showing up to talk about his friend's Sonic 2 beta cart.

It looks like I joined AFSH in September of that year. Most of the people that I still know how to get in touch with were there around 2000, 2001. Don't really know of anyone from the 1998, 1999 time period who is still around, except Stealth, whose old posts are really funny to read because of how angry he got. My posts were just plain bad, because I was 12 at the time.

Everyone hated Andre Dirk back then, and many people were telling him to go away. In December 1998 was when he decided to sell his friend's Sonic 2 beta cart, and by late December bids were up to $150 USD. He was pissed when Simon posted the ROM dump he found in early January 1999.

Nice, I've always found the Sonic Secrets community's early years fascinating. This recent surge in interest in them is probably the best thing to come out of Cult's demise. It makes me wonder, are people currently looking into archiving all these old scene-related pages and posts in a single place? The Retro servers or the wiki, perhaps? It would certainly be better than having them scattered all over the place. Going by Scarred Sun's posts, the staff is already working in archiving Cult at the very least.


I'm writing a long article on it, and have been interviewing long term and key members of the community for about a year now on the side in anticipation of the article.

Part of the research on the article has been saving many, many pages I've gone to. Hence why I was asking about Area51 the other day, heh.
This post has been edited by Cooljerk: 14 May 2018 - 12:54 AM

#62 User is offline Blue Spikeball 

Posted 14 May 2018 - 02:53 AM

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View PostCooljerk, on 14 May 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

I'm writing a long article on it, and have been interviewing long term and key members of the community for about a year now on the side in anticipation of the article.

Part of the research on the article has been saving many, many pages I've gone to. Hence why I was asking about Area51 the other day, heh.

A long article chronicling the community's history? I like the sound of that! Are you planning to compile the saved pages and release them in some form?

#63 User is offline LukyHRE 

Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:09 AM

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View PostBlue Spikeball, on 14 May 2018 - 02:53 AM, said:

View PostCooljerk, on 14 May 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

I'm writing a long article on it, and have been interviewing long term and key members of the community for about a year now on the side in anticipation of the article.

Part of the research on the article has been saving many, many pages I've gone to. Hence why I was asking about Area51 the other day, heh.

A long article chronicling the community's history? I like the sound of that! Are you planning to compile the saved pages and release them in some form?


Consider myself interested too. Please make a topic, or make it public somewhere, when you got it, I really want to read it!

#64 User is offline Galvatron 

Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:34 PM

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View PostXilla, on 13 May 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

View PostCooljerk, on 12 May 2018 - 12:57 PM, said:


Edit dos - actually, iirc, the action replay code was the very first way of finding hpz. It was actually printed in a magazine. It took a long time (or at least felt like a long time to me as a game genie owner lol) before a game genie code was developed from it.


I remember Ed "Pinky" Lomas being the one to discover it when he worked for Sega Power magazine. A few readers had wrote in asking what BGM10 was and Ed, who seemed to be their go-to guy when it came to Action Replay codes, supplied the goods.

Actually missed out on a very cheap job lot of 1993 Sega Power mags a few months ago. Would have scanned that for posterity had I got them.


I've got that issue, here's a scan. This was from issue 43, June 1993, so the game had been out for around half a year.
Posted Image

#65 User is offline XCubed 

Posted 14 May 2018 - 05:32 PM

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Action replay? I though it was all about the Game Geine back then. I haven't heard about AR until 1998 or so when a friend had one for an N64.

#66 User is offline sonicblur 

Posted 14 May 2018 - 05:41 PM

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View PostXCubed, on 14 May 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

Action replay? I though it was all about the Game Geine back then. I haven't heard about AR until 1998 or so when a friend had one for an N64.

The Game Genie was primarily sold in North America. I'm not sure if it had a presence outside the US & Canada. The Action Replay brand had been around in the UK since the late 1980's, and predates Game Genie. Those devices didn't make their way to the US until the mid-90's where they were licensed by Interact under the GameShark brand name. After the deal between InterAct and Datel (makers of Action Replay) soured, then Datel started an office in the US and sold their products in the US directly under the Action Replay name.

The AR was the better of the two devices. Game Genie only had the ability to mask ROM addresses, whereas Action Replay codes could modify memory as well.
This post has been edited by sonicblur: 14 May 2018 - 05:43 PM

#67 User is offline mentski 

Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:03 PM

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The Action Replay Pro had it's own cheat finder menu. I remember finding Hidden Palace myself when I was just pratting around with the device, I managed to find the address for which level you played and just incremented the value to see what I'd find.

I remember finding the palettes for the player sprites in Streets of Rage II around a similar time, that code got published in one mag (might've been Mean Machines or Sega Zone.) I can't remember if I ever sent the Sonic 2 level code anywhere though... Seemed such an easy thing to search and find for yourself if you owned an Action Replay.

#68 User is offline Xilla 

Posted 14 May 2018 - 07:38 PM

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View PostGalvatron, on 14 May 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

View PostXilla, on 13 May 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

View PostCooljerk, on 12 May 2018 - 12:57 PM, said:


Edit dos - actually, iirc, the action replay code was the very first way of finding hpz. It was actually printed in a magazine. It took a long time (or at least felt like a long time to me as a game genie owner lol) before a game genie code was developed from it.


I remember Ed "Pinky" Lomas being the one to discover it when he worked for Sega Power magazine. A few readers had wrote in asking what BGM10 was and Ed, who seemed to be their go-to guy when it came to Action Replay codes, supplied the goods.

Actually missed out on a very cheap job lot of 1993 Sega Power mags a few months ago. Would have scanned that for posterity had I got them.


I've got that issue, here's a scan. This was from issue 43, June 1993, so the game had been out for around half a year.
Posted Image


Perfect! Mistaken about Lomas then. His name seemed to be synonymous with AR stuff at the time. Would love to get my hands on Sega Power stuff from that era again. I recall them (OR maybe another mag) mocking up a screenshot of "Streets of Rage 3" with a 3 player mode at one point (it was just a screenshot of 2 with a life counter added to one of the enemies lifebars IIRC).

My local Ritz video actually had an Action Replay for rent around that time and I remember having some fun messing around with HPZ in debug. I remember looking for the boss in Act 2!

View Postmentski, on 14 May 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:

The Action Replay Pro had it's own cheat finder menu. I remember finding Hidden Palace myself when I was just pratting around with the device, I managed to find the address for which level you played and just incremented the value to see what I'd find.

I remember finding the palettes for the player sprites in Streets of Rage II around a similar time, that code got published in one mag (might've been Mean Machines or Sega Zone.) I can't remember if I ever sent the Sonic 2 level code anywhere though... Seemed such an easy thing to search and find for yourself if you owned an Action Replay.


Lemme guess.....one was the "Terminator" palette? That was the second thing I tried out after HPZ...!
This post has been edited by Xilla: 14 May 2018 - 07:41 PM

#69 User is offline XCubed 

Posted 15 May 2018 - 12:23 PM

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View Postsonicblur, on 14 May 2018 - 05:41 PM, said:

View PostXCubed, on 14 May 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

Action replay? I though it was all about the Game Geine back then. I haven't heard about AR until 1998 or so when a friend had one for an N64.

The Game Genie was primarily sold in North America. I'm not sure if it had a presence outside the US & Canada. The Action Replay brand had been around in the UK since the late 1980's, and predates Game Genie. Those devices didn't make their way to the US until the mid-90's where they were licensed by Interact under the GameShark brand name. After the deal between InterAct and Datel (makers of Action Replay) soured, then Datel started an office in the US and sold their products in the US directly under the Action Replay name.

The AR was the better of the two devices. Game Genie only had the ability to mask ROM addresses, whereas Action Replay codes could modify memory as well.


:psyduck:

Mind blown! I never knew this! Thanks for sharing this nugget of knowledge. I had just naively assumed GG was the better product as it was built into GENS. I also didn't discover debug mode (and what it meant) until 1998, even though I saw it in action in 1991. I thought it meant a "no badniks" mode, since so many of them are based off of insects/bugs. :specialed:

#70 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted 15 May 2018 - 12:42 PM

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View PostXCubed, on 15 May 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

View Postsonicblur, on 14 May 2018 - 05:41 PM, said:

View PostXCubed, on 14 May 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

Action replay? I though it was all about the Game Geine back then. I haven't heard about AR until 1998 or so when a friend had one for an N64.

The Game Genie was primarily sold in North America. I'm not sure if it had a presence outside the US & Canada. The Action Replay brand had been around in the UK since the late 1980's, and predates Game Genie. Those devices didn't make their way to the US until the mid-90's where they were licensed by Interact under the GameShark brand name. After the deal between InterAct and Datel (makers of Action Replay) soured, then Datel started an office in the US and sold their products in the US directly under the Action Replay name.

The AR was the better of the two devices. Game Genie only had the ability to mask ROM addresses, whereas Action Replay codes could modify memory as well.


:psyduck:/>/>

Mind blown! I never knew this! Thanks for sharing this nugget of knowledge. I had just naively assumed GG was the better product as it was built into GENS. I also didn't discover debug mode (and what it meant) until 1998, even though I saw it in action in 1991. I thought it meant a "no badniks" mode, since so many of them are based off of insects/bugs. :specialed:/>/>


To add to the above, the first Action Replays were for the Commodore 64 way back in 1986:

Posted Image

(this is the 4th revision of the c64 AR)
This post has been edited by Cooljerk: 15 May 2018 - 12:42 PM

#71 User is online Sir_mihael 

Posted 15 May 2018 - 12:44 PM

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I remember videogame shows on UK TV (Bad Influence sticks out as one of them in my head) back in the day were all about the Game Genie. I remember seeing it show up a few times which is why I ended up getting one. I can't remember any publicity about Action Replay aside from maybe some magazine mentions..

#72 User is offline Overlord 

Posted 15 May 2018 - 02:05 PM

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Both did circulate by the time of the Mega Drive being on general sale though. While I had neither in the day, I've got both in my own collection now (a couple of different ARs, actually).

#73 User is offline Nova 

Posted 15 May 2018 - 05:43 PM

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View PostSir_mihael, on 15 May 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

I remember videogame shows on UK TV (Bad Influence sticks out as one of them in my head) back in the day were all about the Game Genie. I remember seeing it show up a few times which is why I ended up getting one. I can't remember any publicity about Action Replay aside from maybe some magazine mentions..

I remember Action Replay being all the rage on the PS1, most of the magazines I bought (Power, Powerstation, a few others) had a dedicated page in the cheats section and it was all AR stuff. I didn't really hear about Game Genie until I was emulating, honestly. Maybe just looking in different places.

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