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Sonic Generations Megathread II

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Scarred Sun, Oct 28, 2011.

  1. Shade Vortex

    Shade Vortex

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    I'll join in.

    Green Hill - No, the one in Generations is too much of a tutorial stage and manages to be even more basic than the original.

    Chemical Plant - I'd say they're pretty even. I like things about both of them and they're pretty balanced in what I do and what I don't like.

    Sky Sanctuary - Fuck yes, the original level was just a lame transitional level with a boss rush. I'll take an actual stage over that ANY day. This is actually a (well designed) level.

    Metal Sonic Boss - I'd honestly say yes. Yes, the original is more "challenging", but the laser, spikes and Metal Sonic all together screamed "frustrating" rather than "difficult". I'd take the easy-ass battle over it any day, because it's more interesting.

    Death Egg Boss - Fuck yes. The original was the cheapest piece of shit in my experience with Sonic game bosses. The collision detection was fucked to all hell and made the lack of rings in this stage frustrating to deal with. The new one may be much "easier", but to me, that makes it better. I'd even take the S4 version over the original, even though in some ways it's shittier (like having too many goddamn hit points).

    Speed Highway - I'd honestly say yes. The original level was rather linear in some aspects, and the Generations version has even more paths, some being really awesome alternate paths, like switching from grinding on a rail to running on the side of a building. Some of the alternate routes are therefore really clever and fun to go through and find.
    City Escape - Yes, the original version of this stage was a bit more linear. The new one has more open areas and quite a few interesting alternate routes, like the Mono Beetle homing attack chain that you have to time right to get by.

    Seaside Hill - Yes, the original stage was full of linearity and stop-and-go gameplay where you were forced to switch team members, break obstacles, fly up to higher areas or across gaps, or kill a bunch of robots or destroy walls to proceed. The generations version is actually a consistently fast-enough-paced stage filled with interesting alternate routes, including skipping a whole bunch of the level by boosting over the water areas.

    Shadow Boss - Yes, the original was rather badly done if you ask me. It took me YEARS to find out the strategy that works best in the original fight, because I thought I was supposed to light dash through him with the right timing to win. Iirc if you stayed far enough behind him (but not too far) he'll slow down and use his special move, which was the best opportunity to attack. With the new fight, I knew what I had to do: Boost, keep my ring count up, and get to the orbs before Shadow. Much better executed in terms of knowing what the hell you're supposed to do.

    Perfect Chaos - The original had a bit more of a randomized challenge element, what with dodging the lasers, while the only thing that will probably kill you in the new one is bottomless pits, I thought it was much better executed and a lot more fun, much less dull too.

    Crisis City - Yes, there's no contest here. The original was a glitchy mess that required the use of a broken homing attack, and springs didn't lock your movement so if you moved at all during a jump you tended to fall into a bottomless pit. The grinding and rail switching was also shitty in the original, and the boarding part was badly done. The mach speed area was the most frustrating one in the game, with the worst offense being the camera, which changes abruptly. The new version of the stage doesn't have as many grind rails (which is a good thing), the homing attack actually works in this game, and there are a bunch of interesting alternate paths to boot. Still a bit bottomless pit heavy, though.

    Rooftop Run - Yes, the original stages of Unleashed all shared the same problems for me basically, and Generations Rooftop Run fixed those problems. I love how they sacrificed length to add more depth to the stage. There was more routes, and less linearity/boost areas. And of course, no QTE boosters, ramps, no sun/moon medals, and Sonic's controls being fine-tuned for easier control all helped make the stage much better for me. I also loved how they added the flying blimp to the end of the stage.

    Planet Wisp - Well, honestly, there are things I like and hate about both stages. They're pretty even, but I like them both.
    Silver Boss - FUCK YES. I don't even need to explain how shitty the original was. My only problem with the new one is that if you're out of boost at the end of the fight, it's harder to catch up to and homing attack Silver, making the fight much harder to win at the worst possible time.

    Egg Dragoon - Yes, I fucking hate the werehog and QTEs in games, so the Generations version is infinitely superior in every way. It' actually a fight, for one god-damned thing! The original was a button-masher followed by a movie that you press buttons to get the good ending to!

    All in all, Generations was very much an improvement over almost everything for me. I bet my opinion will be controversial and be mocked. "o u suk @ teh original boss fights ur so bad u have 2 have it ez to win" for example.
     
  2. Zephyr

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    Green Hill, Chemical Plant, and Sky Sanctuary:
    As has been said, the remakes, as great as they are, don't measure up to the originals. The gameplay of R'Unleashed and Generations' classic are too shallow to even compare. They ARE fucking gorgeous though.

    Metal Sonic:
    Not by a long shot. I mean yes, you're actually hitting him now. However, it's too mindless, simplistic, and un-threatening. You just run, jump over him, and smack him. In Sonic CD you had all kinds of shit to worry about. You had to time your jumps to get over the spikes and properly maneuver the slopes without screwing up. Overall more tension in the original to me, and that's what the fight seemed to be about.

    Death Egg Robo:
    No. I like the remake, because its more cinematic and all, but it was far less menacing. In the original you have to constantly bide your time, and fucking hope to GOD you don't barely miss his hit box. The remake had rings which removed the tension.

    Speed Highway:
    Yes. This level's all about speed. The remake features faster gameplay. Thus, the remake is better fitting at meeting the goals of the level. I did miss the small day time portion though...

    City Escape:
    Yes. A lot less linear in the remake.

    Seaside Hill:
    Yes. Because you can run on the fucking water.

    Shadow:
    No. I know in the original it was a pretty bad idea to stop, what with the whole 'walkway falling down' thing, but I do for whatever reason enjoy having the FREEDOM to do a stupid thing like that. The remake was more forced. No light dashing. No ability to stop. That said, I DID enjoy the shit out of it.

    Perfect Chaos:
    I have to say yes. This version was more elaborate. Not that elaborate mind you, but still more engaging than the original (from what I can remember of playing it, at least).

    Crisis City and Silver fight:
    Yes. Because Sonic 06 was fucking shit.

    Rooftop Run:
    Yes. Generations gameplay is just improved Unleashed gameplay, level design and all. So if you take a level from the weaker game and improve it....well the result is pretty implicit.

    Planet Wisp:
    Never played original.

    Egg Dragoon:
    Don't remember the original.
     
  3. Josh

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    I'll add my two cents, noting that I'm only commenting on the classic-style for the Genesis levels, and the modern for everything else:

    EDIT: Decided to put all this behind spoiler tags, because a) all this text is getting ugly, and b) I wouldn't want the main point of my message to be buried in-between a bunch of people stating their opinions and not responding to one-another.

    GREEN HILL
    No, but I wouldn't expect it to. This is an introductory level for a reason, and its linearity and simplicity compared to a 3-act stage from 20 years ago isn't surprising. It is gorgeous!

    CHEMICAL PLANT
    Nah; the whole two-acts vs. one act thing hurts it here, plus the lack of boss. From a general level-design standpoint, they're probably about equal, but there's just not as much here.

    SKY SANCTUARY
    I'm going to go against the grain here and say yes. They REALLY expanded on this one, and while I miss Mecha Sonic, this zone's got a lot more going on than the original.

    METAL SONIC
    Hm... while I'd have preferred a race rather than a fight, I never was a big fan of the original's layout or how easy it was. It's kind of a toss-up.

    DEATH EGG ROBOT
    Definitely not. Just giving you rings diminishes the threat and challenge a lot, but it IS the first proper boss.

    SPEED HIGHWAY
    Definitely. Took my favorite Adventure level and made it even better.

    CITY ESCAPE
    Definitely not. Took my favorite Adventure 2 level and made it kind of a bore-fest. The middle portion is okay, but it's WAY too short, and the truck chase lasts WAY too long and doesn't have you doing anything interesting. Easily my least favorite Act 2. Act 1's a blast, though.

    SEASIDE HILL
    _Amazing_ job on this one. I never cared for Heroes, but this level is one of my favorites.

    SHADOW
    I'll say no. It's a weird gameplay mechanic, though the original wasn't anything special, either.

    PERFECT CHAOS
    Big improvement here, especially once you start to learn the paths. It's a lot more involved.

    CRISIS CITY
    One of the most difficult and most FUN levels in the game. It should go without saying that this improves on 2k6.

    ROOFTOP RUN
    A very Unleashed-style level (BOOST BOOST BOOST), but not nearly as long as the original. All the alternate paths and improved gameplay make this a yes, though.

    PLANET WISP
    A very Colors-style level (PLATFORM UP THE BUILDING), but I ended up liking it a lot more as I played it over and over. I'd say yes. I just wish more of it took place in the forest.

    SILVER
    Well, duh.

    EGG DRAGOON
    I don't even remember what the original Egg Dragoon did, and I beat most of Unleashed about a month before Generations' release. Big improvement, then.

    To introduce a new subject, I wonder if we'll ever dig up some interesting stuff from Generations' development? One thing seems pretty obvious: this game was rushed. Not BADLY rushed, and rushed in the sense that most games are rushed, but still rushed. Fortunately, the dev team focused on the important stuff (making sure the gameplay was top-notch), and let everything else fall through the cracks.

    It's interesting how many little odds-and-ends there seem to be here. The CG cutscenes in individual levels from the trailers; the way the skill system is kind of oddly set-up (DASH & STYLE!); the clunkiness and lack of polish on the final boss...
     
  4. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

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    Green Hill: No
    It's a tough one, because Sonic 1 is my least favorite of the classics, but the original Green Hill was just a bit more compelling and full.

    Chemical Plant: No
    Just lacks the meat of the original, but still fun

    Sky Sanctuary: Yes
    Generation's rendition is an improvement in nearly every aspect, minus how the level ends. I would have preferred it to end somehow launching yourself onto the Death Egg somehow, just for continuity's sake.

    Metal Sonic Boss: No
    I like the fact that you can damage him this time, but the original felt much more frantic. You couldn't hurt him, so you had to win or lose on his terms instead of yours, and if you were too slow, you could lose.

    Death Egg Boss: No
    Beating the Death Egg is much more fulfilling in Sonic 2 than in Generations, because it's done with your own skill and careful movements as opposed to an outside element such as the the explosive switches.

    Speed Highway: Yes
    It feels like an intense romp through skyscrapers. It took the intensity that SA had in its time and recreated it to be relevant now. Love it.

    City Escape: Yes
    Everything was such an amazing improvement, save for the fact that it no longer fulfills its original purpose to make it feel like a skate-punk urban parkour type-thing. Still, mechanically, there's nothing but improvements that have been made.

    Seaside Hill: Yes
    THIS is what future Sonic zones should play like. Huge level, plenty of multiple paths and a gorgeous setting. It did what Heroes didn't come close to.

    Shadow Boss: No
    Along the same reasons I don't like the Death Egg fight as much this time around is the fact that you're using arbitrary outside items to win the fight, rather than it being a 1-on-1 fight between equals who win or lose based on their own skills. Loved the SA2:B homage cutscene, though

    Perfect Chaos: Yes
    Coming from a guy who just played it again 2 days ago, everything done here was a massive improvement, save for the fact it was regular Sonic pulling it off, which makes it feel a bit less important. Gameplay-wise, though, Perfect Chaos has never been more fun.

    Crisis City: Yes
    This one requires no explanation. It was good this level had a chance to be played in a non-broken game. I loved this level.

    Rooftop Run: Yes
    Considering Generations is an enhanced version of Unleashed, its easy to say that Generations would be better. However, I always loved the lighting in Unleashed more than Generations, so the original has the edge from an aesthetic standpoint for me.

    Planet Wisp: Yes
    I loved the original, however having this level without the gameplay and graphical limitations of the Wii made all the difference in the world. Such an improvement.

    Silver Boss: Yes
    See explaination of Crisis City. There is no comparison here, and it almost completely redeems Silver's shortcomings in my eyes. Almost.

    Egg Dragoon: Yes
    Of course. I'd take playing as Sonic over the Werehog any day.
     
  5. Vangar

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    Dunno what you guys are on about, CPZ in Generations is way more exciting and fun. But I dare say it's one of the best levels in a Sonic game either way.
     
  6. BrigadierBaz

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    Generations Music Replacement and Editing
    Forgive me if this was already observed earlier, but does anyone else see the similarities between:

    http://youtu.be/gm82I0FLO9A
    The main melody of this...

    ...and 2.12 onwards of this.
    http://youtu.be/vKB3BC-LFho
     
  7. Lobotomy

    Lobotomy

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    Yeah, that would be because they are the same song.
     
  8. BrigadierBaz

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    Generations Music Replacement and Editing
    Not just that, the prototype version contained a guitar riff that wasn't in the final game. The exact same notes have been used in the classic mix at the time I pointed out.
     
  9. Overlord

    Overlord

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    That's correct, it is using the prototype version. A nice touch really, because as an instrumental it's a much fuller song :)
     
  10. DustArma

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    Not sure which shadow battle were you playing but you can very much stop and backtrack through the level in Generations, there's no autorun at all.
     
  11. MastaSys

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    Death Egg Robot Sonic 2 -> Final Boss
    Death Egg Robot Generations -> 1st Boss

    ...Aren't we being a bit unfair on this one?

    EDIT: Damn you language differences.
     
  12. Polygon Jim

    Polygon Jim

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    All the bitches.

    I'd say it was at least a 90º Boss.
     
  13. Vaiyt

    Vaiyt

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    My opinions, I will give you them.

    Green Hill
    No. The original GHZ is one of the best stages in the series' history.

    Chemical Plant.
    Again, no. The modern version is pretty cool I guess, but nothing too impressive, and I'd still play the original over Classic.

    Sky Sanctuary.
    Yes. Then again, it's one of the less impressive classic stages, against the best and most replayable stage in Sonic Generations. SSZ Modern is a blast.

    Metal Sonic:
    No, but only because it's yawningly easy.

    Death Egg Robo:
    No. The robot lost a lot of its menace, with those chubby legs and spazzy movement. The original was ponderous and imposing. The "running on arm" part has a less than impressive execution.

    Speed Highway:
    Yes. It's basically the same stage, but with less bullshit and more stunts. Classic version is not as good, however.

    City Escape:
    Not sure.

    Seaside Hill:
    Yes. Heroes sucked. This takes Ocean Palace, which I always liked for its look, and takes away the stuff I hated about it.

    Shadow:
    Maybe? The concept of the battle is somewhat strange to me, but it's not bad to play.

    Perfect Chaos:
    Oh yes. Why couldn't they make the Death Egg Robot half as cool as this?

    Crisis City
    Yes. But only because Sonic 06 was utter shit, because it's the worst stage in the game. Both Classic and Modern.

    Rooftop Run:
    Yes. It's similar, but more refined than the Unleashed version. Classic act is clever, feeling noticeably different from the Modern act.

    Planet Wisp:
    Can't say, but I like the Generations version. It's evil but not frustrating like Crisis City, and also looks gorgeous.

    Silver:
    Yes. One of the best moments of the game, actually. But then again, Silver in Sonic 06 was one of the worst moments of the entire franchise. It's not hard to beat that.

    Egg Dragoon:
    Duh. Not involving the Werehog is already an improvement.
     
  14. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    http://blogs.sega.com/2012/02/17/submit-your-sonic-generations-music-questions/

    Right, so, Sega's asking fans to post questions to the sound team behind Generations. Since we know the average fan has the same question potency potential as a moss-covered rock, this is where you all stop in.

    As a reminder, if you want to pitch toward any musician in particular, we've got:

    -Jun Senoue (and by proxy, Crush 40)
    -Naofumi Hataya (Pretty much any "Classic" Mega Drive game remix except Classic GHZ [Jun Senoue], Vs. Metal Sonic)
    -Richard Jacques (Supporting Me 3DS, Modern Sky Sanctuary w/ Jun Senoue, Mission 5 [3D Blast Saturn Theme], Vs. Silver, Seaside Hill Classic, Vs. Perfect Chaos 2, Vs. Egg Dragoon, Vs. Time Eater)
    -Alex Makhlouf (and by proxy, his brother/Cash Cash - Speed Highway Classic, City Escape Classic, Big Arms, Modern Water Palace, SSZ BF U.S., Special Stage 3DS, Mission 1 "Super Sonic Racing")
    -Atsushi "Sushi" Kosugi - (Casino Night Modern)
    -"Circuit Freq" - (For True Story, Radical Highway Modern, Open Your Heart ~Vs. Perfect Chaos~)
    -Ted Poley - (City Escape Modern)
    -Kenichi Tokoi - (Mission 3 [Emerald Beach from Sonic Battle], Classic and Modern Planet Wisp)
    -Tomoya Ohtani (Crisis City, Rooftop Run, Tropical Resort, and Wisp themes)
    -Yutaka Minobi - (Various Cutscene themes)
    -Yasufumi Fukada - (Various Cutscene themes)

    Just to help sharpen any potential questions you guys may be stewing up.
     
  15. Nova

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    I just want to ask who did the bass for City Escape (Modern). It's fucking sexual.

    As for which levels are better/worse than the originals? I honestly couldn't say any of them are better or worse. They're just different - though if I had to pick one for each, I'd say Rooftop Run was a definite improvement and is still my favourite modern level in the game. Worse? Well, if we're counting boss encounters, Death Egg Robot. If not? Fuck, I can't decide, they're all just so good.
     
  16. Takeshi Taneda did the bass for "Escape from the City - Blue Blur RMX". I do believe he was/is the bassist for Crush 40.
     
  17. What? He did Classic GHZ and Stardust Speedway.
     
  18. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    GHZ Classic is credited from Jun Senoue on the CD. Also, I mentioned SSZ as his.
     
  19. Guess Who

    Guess Who

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    Booklet says it's Hataya. The rip going around with Jun tagged on the track is mistaken.
     
  20. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    Consider me corrected then! :specialed: I did find it odd that GHZ Classic was the odd one out of the group despite being a similar mix style.