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Sonic X-treme Textures and Defs

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Scarred Sun, Dec 6, 2009.

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  1. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    Ok, I looked at the hexdump data a bit closer and there is clearly a pattern.

    Here's the hexdump data seperated out for ACT_Path

    Code (Text):
    1. 0100 0300 4600 0000 0000
    2.  
    3. 013a 800d 0009 8004 00c0 b113
    4.  
    5. 0000 800e 0009 8004 00c0 e446
    6.  
    7. 0000 8010 000a 8004 00a0 ffff
    8.  
    9. 0000 8013 000e 8001 0040 ffff
    10.  
    11. 0000 8006 0015 8001 0080 ffff
    12.  
    13. 0000 8017 0009 8000 0080 ffff
    You can see that it forms 6 groups (which makes sense if the count is 5, 0-5 is 6) and you can see some numbers, like the last digit, climb up quickly. The second number seems to slowly increase.

    Wonder what this could be.

    EDIT:

    Looking at FLOWER_path, the same pattern exists:

    Code (Text):
    1. 0100 0300 2e00 0000 0000
    2.  
    3. 0152 8008 0008 8006 0000 ffff
    4.  
    5. 0000 8008 000b 8006 0000 ffff
    6.  
    7. 0000 8008 000c 8006 0000 ffff
    8.  
    9. 0000 8008 000c 8006 0000 ffff
    Again, 4 repeated groups (FLOWER_path has a count of 3, 0-3 is 4), and you can see individual numbers change.

    I notice there are 3 groups of 8 digits each. Maybe XYZ coordinates?

    EDIT AGAIN: Alright, tried it again with EEP_2. This is definitely the pattern:

    Code (Text):
    1. 0100 0300 5e00 0000 0000
    2.  
    3. 0122 8016 000c 801e 00c0 5e42
    4.  
    5. 0000 8018 000d 801e 0080 4b68
    6.  
    7. 0000 8018 000c 801d 0040 b497
    8.  
    9. 0000 8016 000d 801d 0040 a1bd
    10.  
    11. 0000 8014 000c 801d 0000 ffff
    12.  
    13. 0000 8014 000d 801e 00c0 ffff
    14.  
    15. 0000 8016 000c 801e 0000 ffff
    16.  
    17. 0000 8016 000c 801e 0000 ffff
    EEP_2 has a count of 7, there are 8 groups of repeating numbers.

    Each path appears to begin with an identification code and some flags being set, followed by count+1 repeating iterations of 6 digits which change slightly.
     
  2. Energy

    Energy

    Member
    Thanks for shining the light... why was I being thick and not thinking like a programmer... grrr of course 3 would break down to 4... feel really thick at the moment. hmm will have a look :)

    EDIT:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeoX6M50iCM
    there's the video of the ACT path in motion... I assume... the big word act flying away... lol... :)
    That would correspond with the movements you suggested for the ACT_PATH
     
  3. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    Its hard to judge the path the ACT moves based on the fact that Sonic is moving around. Using the JADE GULLY as a reference would be much better. Lemmie grab the data from its path... I'm guessing it's "TITLE TOP path"?

    Here we go:

    Code (Text):
    1. 0100 0300 4600 0000 0000
    2.  
    3. 013a 8007 0009 8003 0000 b62d
    4.  
    5. 0000 8007 0009 8004 0000 db76
    6.  
    7. 0000 8007 000b 8005 0080 ffff
    8.  
    9. 0000 8007 0010 8004 0080 ffff
    10.  
    11. 0000 8007 000d 8000 0080 ffff
    12.  
    13. 0000 8007 0012 8003 0080 ffff
     
  4. Energy

    Energy

    Member
    I assume so :)
    (keep looking at the temple sqrew one and thinking how awesome it'll be if we get that working... lol :))
     
  5. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    I wake up and you guys have all this?! I have to say wow !
    I'm really glad that I joined this community here!

    hey hey hey,,,anyone look at the blocks that have shadows ?
    seems the engine shades quite a few blocks to be darker.
    may I request this to be looked into?
    I've checked briefly a few days ago, but didn't spot anything in the DEF files.
     
  6. Energy

    Energy

    Member
    Once we've got something more solid then I'm sure it will be looked at. There's lots of rendering flags etc that need to be looked at. We'll still working out paths tbh although we're getting somewhere with them. I'm gonna do some more work on stuff tonight I think :)
     
  7. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    That'd be great !
    For the time being, I'm just going to take screens of JG in the level viewer. (with antialising turned of)
    Open to photoshop find the difference in contrast between a texture's selected pixel and the darker version texture screenshot's pixel....
    than apply that contrast difference to the rest of the texture and double check to see if they all match.
     
  8. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    I haven't noticed these darker textures, although I admit I haven't been looking at the viewer much.

    Can you give me a spot as an example?
     
  9. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    look at the water in JG. and some other sections , some blocks faces are darker than others , they represent shadows.

    I don't think the viewer is casting shadows, instead I feel there being faked,
    because not all blocks are shaded darker, ( Hnmm unless some blocks aren't receiving shadows)
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    I believe that shading IS from the engine, but the information on how to shade is in the def files. Thats most likely what this sort of stuff is:

    Code (Text):
    1. //================================================================================
    2. ========
    3. //                                        TXR0223                                        
    4. //================================================================================
    5. ========
    6. NEW_TEXTURE "TXR0223"
    7. {
    8.     Value   001,TXTR_FLAT_FILL                  //Flags
    9.     Value   002,AutoTrans                       //Rendering Flags
    10.    Value   010,"SYS_FrontShading"              //Weight         Range: -256 ->   256
    11.     Value   017,Color(224,088,000)              //Fill   Color
    12. }
    You say this is in Jade Gully act 1? I'll take a look at it after getting some sleep (been awake all night).
     
  11. SegaLoco

    SegaLoco

    W)(at did you say? Banned
    Now THAT would be a spectacle. I am curious, I know what Andrew is working on, but are there any other decent Xtreme remakes going on. I haven't checked on Senntient's fan stuff part of the site, but iirc there are only 1 or 2 fan games going compared to the 9000 that started. =P
     
  12. Mad Echidna

    Mad Echidna

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    I think it's a shame Andrew is only making a total remake instead re-engineering it. Hopefully more coders take a stab at the DEF format. C4 is pretty but this game was supposed to run on pentiums for goodness sake.
     
  13. Energy

    Energy

    Member
    My plan is to eventually make an engine that will allow you to play the DEF files, and also an editor to make custom maps etc... I've started on something but I have no idea how it will turn out so I'm not promising anything to the community yet. It just wouldn't be fair.

    I have quite a few ideas running in my head though so just be known at least one (and I'm sure more) are looking at it, but it's not like the DEF files are a known format so you're gonna have to give it time for the community to work it out. Until we got the paths working too the levels would be completely unplayable anyway as you'd get stuck very quickly in most levels :)

    Then you need to build a decent physics and a playable sonic, then implement items and enemies.

    Then if you want to make a game that will actually be fun to play you're going to have to start filling in the gaps and doing a lot more work. This wont happen over night :)
     
  14. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    Thats what I'm doing.
     
  15. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    Hey guys ,im not the only persion working in project ASAX. (Andrew Xeniczone Sonic Xtreme)
    Xeniczone is doing the engine im just the art and 3d modeler guy.
    togeather were a team,
     
  16. Skeledroid

    Skeledroid

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    As long as they keep all the original level layout/textures, I don't care. It's still the same levels regardless of the format. :v:
     
  17. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    By reverse-engineering the format, you'd have all the levels in less time than the first one will be completed.
     
  18. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    Eh, it's a legitimate project. I don't see it any differently than when Tax recreated EHZ in the Dreamcast version of Retro Sonic.

    Energy and I are communicating with info about what we find with the level defs anyways, so it's not like no work is being done on the level formats. I appreciate what Andrew is doing at least.
     
  19. Skeledroid

    Skeledroid

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    not necessarily, you'd have to rewrite the engine to use that format. and who's to say that the DEF format is even a good format? anyway, as long we get playable levels true to the original -- regardless of time, who cares? we've waited since 1996, we can wait X amount of more time to play it.
     
  20. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    As the original raw format of DEF is concerned ,
    Reverse engineering it wont be as beneficial to game performance.
    because it uses separate cubes or portions of cubes to build the levels.
    the more separate models u have will hit performance no mater what engine your on.
    if you combine them to single model or reference them, sure you'll get a better performance.
    but u still have more polygons, and more vertex, vs. the method I'm using to rebuild the level.

    I'm doing a totally closed model which cuts down on polygons and vertex more than 60% from the original Def format.

    imagine the each cube inside the def format.
    I have no idea how many cubes are in jade gully lets say its about 100 cubes. I know theres gata be more than 100.
    now imagine that each sides of the cube ,
    lets say it has 4 sides, 2 being deleted (back and bottom)
    each side is not connected to the other, they are 4 separate planes. thats 8 triangle polygons
    and each side holds 4 vertex each. 4 x 4 = 16... now thats 16 vertex for all 4 sides
    so
    100 x 16 vertex = 1600 vertex.
    and
    100 x 8 = 800 polygons

    lets compare that to the way I built the model
    since I didn't use cubes,, just sides of cubes , and since there all welded. 1 side connecting to the other does not have double vertex per side when by side. each vertex is shared
    100 cubes worth of mass.
    1 cube Worth of mass on my model is = to 1 side each cube mass....which is 2 triangles, which is 4 vertex total.
    so
    100 x 4 = 400 vertex..... than minus a percent of shared vertex (which I have no clue on the numbers and theres even less than 400 vertex.)
    and 100 x 2 = 200 polygons



    , I may be a little off with the math , but ahh well.
     
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