When I was trying to port/remake PlaySEGA's Sonic Level Creator, the general idea was to implement all of the PlaySEGA tiles and then add in a few other tile types and gimmicks for diversity purposes. (a little bit of Chemical Plant Zone stuff, conveyor belts, etc.) So you'd still only be trapped in the one included tileset, but at least you could make the most of it.
What about a program that creates a randomly generated levels (which of course would need basic rules, like to make sure the path doesn't just come to a dead end)? How feasible would that be? Although it could just make levels far too generic and boring.
That's hardly randomly generated levels. That's a set of about eight levels strung together in a random order with some random items in.
I think you could make a fun enough 'Sonic Maker' with Sonic Worlds, using pre-existing tiles to make personal fun little levels. Hmm, maybe someone should get on that really :p I mean, it's not like we need every personal fan level to be on the level of After the Sequel :v:
The toughest part of a Sonic Maker, the geometry, could possibly be done using a variant of the original game's 256x256 chunks; except automatically 'smoothed' by the engine if tiles are not joined to adjacent ones. When I first got into layout editing via the original SonEd, I found this to be simple as hell to figure out; having hardly had the best track record in figuring out apparently simple hacking techniques.
I made this https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Maker but I was young and it was awful. Worked as well as I had desired it to however. I don't think creating or placing level chunks down like Sonic games are actually built would be fun at all. I'd like to see an editor that gives intuitive direct access to the level geometry, a bit like the 2D polygon collision in Unity where you can create/delete and move points to create any shape you like. The program would fill in the visuals, and objects such as loops can be placed down, and they connect with the polygonal ground and handles can be used to change the size of them in any direction. Would be fun.
I'm trying to get my head around on how the graphics itself could work considering the possibility to give them an individual look. Imagine a basic square example chunk. It could be overlayed either with a geometrical pattern (think GHZ, PPZ and so on) and/or a themed graphic set. Afterwards you choose a floor, the basic colors and a backdrop to match it. So kinda like what Chimera mentioned. With an approach like this, the created zones would at least get an individual look, though that still wouldn't solve the other issues like stage specific gimmicks and this stuff. I suppose all the stuff from S&K's Death Egg Zone for example would be really complicated to make it fit for any other level. And I'm only talking from a design standpoint here
A layman's idea of fun in this case though, would be how easily they can create or edit a level without prior knowledge or study. Simplicity of use or depth of control? Pick one.
I mean, again, that goes back to how ingenious the design of the framework is. A bunch of prefab tiles to start you off, with the ability to copy/paste to a user library and then modify for example caters to both, while obfuscating the more complicated layer for the layman. But then again, it really still does go back to the discussion that most people who would be able to make a decent level design are the same sort who would figure out more complicated tools rather than a Maker, anyway. Mario Maker has gotten worse if anything w.r.t. finding levels that are actually fun to play. That would probably just get worse with Sonic style platforming, and I'm not even taking a dig at the community.
If there were a Sonic maker, it would become very, very apparant to the masses that Sonic is a totally different beast to most games and making a Sonic game is pretty damn difficult, for reasons other people have explained.
With a library of objects and level themes, and support tools, my Sonic 2 Lockon PoC could become something like a "Sonic Maker". You would choose a game style, a level theme, and the types of objects/enemies you want, then use SonLVL or SonED2 to create a level layout, and have the tool generate a binary that can be appended to the base ROM to play a single level, or with other binaries to make a level pack. It wouldn't be as easy to use as Super Mario Maker, but it wouldn't be tremendously difficult. A fangame would remove certain restrictions, but then you would have to recreate the behaviors of all the objects.
I don't necessarily see how that would be a bad thing Having a greater understanding of games and how they get made and what that actually "means" is ultimately a good thing
By that reasoning, Mario Maker shouldn't exist, and the masses should all be using Lunar Magic and assembly instead. In fact, just let people use Game Maker or heck, better yet, raw code, let em all learn just what it takes to make a game. Point is, where do you draw the line? If you're going to reason that a much greater deal of complexity for such a thing is better as an educational tool, might as well go to the logical conclusion of that.
Super Mario Maker has taught some people that there's much more to making a good game than banging a few blocks together. A Sonic Maker could have a similar effect. I say that because coding well is a different science from designing fun levels. Even with older commercial video games, the people using the tools to make good levels weren't always also the ones writing them. (Which is quite different from small indie teams where everyone has to multi-talented and useful in more areas than one or bust.) Although I do have to admit that coding does teach you the hardware or software limitations everyone faces while making game content. I know trying to design my own level editor was quite difficult and humbling. While I already gained a lot of respect for game developers from all of my time working on fan games, attempting to go as far as making my own development tools deepened that respect in more ways than I can readily articulate.
If we are talking about game making as a whole and not just level design. An engine holding your hand every step of the way could spoil you irrepearable. People insert a model in the game and have the arrow keys move it and 'look ma I can make games'. For people that don't know any better, they'd think the shiny graphics were done by the person who in fact only spent 10 minutes with a tutorial on YouTube. It is really harmful for both parties, the one that tries the tutorial and the observer that doesnt know how games are made and claps at the 'achievement' . I recently saw a guy paying 6 figure for a game project. You wouldnt believe what it consisted of. The 'team' used Unity3D and as a base one of the official free scenes. They swapped the scene with a new low poly one, and the character again with a new low poly one. That was it. The character was about 1000 triangles, and they even used the skeletal animations of the demo scene. The terrain was about as detailed as an open world Dreamcast game. And it was static as hell. Then the boss flew over the world and wondered why they gave him lukewarm responses at conferences and expos. This happened in this fucking 2015. So on the question, Unity3D is where you draw the line.
If that's the case, then games like Max & the Magic Marker, The Word Ends With You: Solo Remix, Temple Run 2, Surgeon Simulator 2013, Plague Inc, Armikrog, and Cities: Skylines all fall short. As easy as it is for people to do asset flips like that, it's still a full-powered engine that can be used properly for some very good things. It is intrinsically distinct from Mario Maker and a theoretical Sonic Maker in that you can make whatever game you want, and there's no real limitations, regardless of how simple it is to "make" utter trash.
Sure. In the right hands (experienced hands) any tool can be put to good use. Hearthstone and Sonic Dash are another examples of Unity3D games. My main concern with it is it teaches and promotes bad habits to people that are just beginning to learn game programming. As far as a Sonic Maker, doesnt SonLVL kinda cover that? You can make new layouts and object placements with it, and even edit the tiles.
Guess we now know where Digital Homicide gets their funds. Anyway, this is why making game development tools easier to use and get is kind of a double edged sword. It's become easier for people to make cool stuff because of how easy it is to just download Unity or Unreal Engine, and because of how well documented those engines now are. This is partially why there are so many more indie games lately. It's also a great teaching tool. On the other hand, it's also a lot easier for people to just buy or download some assets and use those to put out shit. See everything Digital Homicide puts out. I kinda see it more as a necessary evil though.
