[Ralakimus]

Didn't see these on the wiki, so...




Emerald Hill/Green Hill maps from the Simon Wai proto.

[Black Squirrel]

Hivebrain, on 17 April 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

Is there a reason to have palettes uploaded as files? They could be saved as text and displayed with a template.

I had it in my mind that one day we might want to have animated GIFs.

Though I suppose you could do that in CSS these days. It's not something I've looked into, but yeah I suppose you could just use raw values to generate them.

Iiinteresting

[Cooljerk]

Black Squirrel, on 18 April 2018 - 11:28 AM, said:

Hivebrain, on 17 April 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

Is there a reason to have palettes uploaded as files? They could be saved as text and displayed with a template.

I had it in my mind that one day we might want to have animated GIFs.

Though I suppose you could do that in CSS these days. It's not something I've looked into, but yeah I suppose you could just use raw values to generate them.

Iiinteresting

It just keeps getting interesting then -- by raw values, do you mean the HEX values the genesis uses, or do you mean the RGB values they correspond to? If the latter, there is a bit of a discussion about how to represent those kind of values as accurately as possible compared to the Genesis output.

This post has been edited by Cooljerk: 18 April 2018 - 11:39 AM

[Black Squirrel]

There will always need to be some sort of conversion to #RRGGBB (hexadecimal) because that's how colours are rendered in web browsers. But that's just a bit of maths, and I'm sure it wouldn't take much time to figure out what works best.

Something like:
■■■■■■

Maybe have it so when you hover over a square, it displays the Mega Drive hex value. Dunno.

[Cooljerk]

Black Squirrel, on 18 April 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

There will always need to be some sort of conversion to #RRGGBB (hexadecimal) because that's how colours are rendered in web browsers. But that's just a bit of maths, and I'm sure it wouldn't take much time to figure out what works best.

Something like:
■■■■■■

Maybe have it so when you hover over a square, it displays the Mega Drive hex value. Dunno.

In that case, I recommend we give you the raw hex values from the Genesis and then people can discuss the best math conversions. The discrepancy comes from the change in bit depth from normal 24-bit color that most displays use, and the 9-bit color the Genesis used, and precisely where the steps between colors lies. IIRC the most obvious conversion actually isn't correct and makes the colors appear slightly too bright, there is another less obvious mathematical conversion that members discussed that is more accurate.

[MainMemory]

The most accurate color values gathered from real Megadrives are 0, 52, 87, 116, 144, 172, 206, 255.

[Cooljerk]

MainMemory, on 18 April 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

The most accurate color values gathered from real Megadrives are 0, 52, 87, 116, 144, 172, 206, 255.

There is also highlight and shadow, too, don't forget those.

[Black Squirrel]

Ralakimus, on 18 April 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

Didn't see these on the wiki, so...

Now you do

[MainMemory]

Cooljerk, on 18 April 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

MainMemory, on 18 April 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

The most accurate color values gathered from real Megadrives are 0, 52, 87, 116, 144, 172, 206, 255.

There is also highlight and shadow, too, don't forget those.

Sonic games generally don't use S/H, and for something like a palette comparison, I don't see why we'd need to show S/H variants.

[Black Squirrel]

Question:

if you wanted to make a table of palettes on the wiki, and let's say the code looked a bit like this

{{table|
| colour1=
| colour2=
| colour3=
| colour4=
| colour5=
...

}}

what would you like to pass to each of these arguments?

My guess, and it's only a guess because I'm not wise to these things, is that it's a three digit hexadecimal value BGR. And because a value can only be 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, A, C or E, the reddest red would be "00E".


Is this correct?

[Cooljerk]

MainMemory, on 18 April 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

Cooljerk, on 18 April 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

MainMemory, on 18 April 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

The most accurate color values gathered from real Megadrives are 0, 52, 87, 116, 144, 172, 206, 255.

There is also highlight and shadow, too, don't forget those.

Sonic games generally don't use S/H, and for something like a palette comparison, I don't see why we'd need to show S/H variants.

They do, for example, in the save select screen and in the special stage in sonoc 3.

You'd show s/h variants because they are part of the picture, like the permanent shadow in the special stage.

i.e. this:




If we're putting objects into levels, like badniks and rings, we should also put this object in the special stage, since it loads for every character. And unlike other visual components of objects (i.e. the buzz bomber sprite), the "sprite" in this case only manifests as a shadow color change. Which is all to say that the shadow in Sonic 3's special stage is actually an object that always loads in that spot, with a sprite that is just a circle, that is drawn with color 15 of palette line 3, which in this case doesn't draw actual color pixels but instead shades the pixels it appears over.

Black Squirrel, on 18 April 2018 - 04:23 PM, said:

Question:

if you wanted to make a table of palettes on the wiki, and let's say the code looked a bit like this

{{table|
| colour1=
| colour2=
| colour3=
| colour4=
| colour5=
...

}}

what would you like to pass to each of these arguments?

My guess, and it's only a guess because I'm not wise to these things, is that it's a three digit hexadecimal value BGR. And because a value can only be 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, A, C or E, the reddest red would be "00E".


Is this correct?

assuming BGR order, then yup, 00E would be solid red of the highest value. You should preceed this with $ or 0x to make certain it's HEX, though. So 0x00E or $00E.

This post has been edited by Cooljerk: 18 April 2018 - 05:14 PM

[Neo]

Cooljerk, on 18 April 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

MainMemory, on 18 April 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

Cooljerk, on 18 April 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

There is also highlight and shadow, too, don't forget those.

Sonic games generally don't use S/H, and for something like a palette comparison, I don't see why we'd need to show S/H variants.

They do, for example, in the save select screen and in the special stage in sonoc 3.

He said they don't generally use S/H. Shadow/Highlight mode is used in a grand total of two places in the whole series, both of them in Sonic 3, and you managed to get one of them wrong. It's the competition character select that uses it, not the Data Select.

The point is, the mode is so underused, there's no point in recording or displaying S/H info for everything. You'd at most document the special stage shadow colors, but then again, you're probably better off documenting the special stage palettes differently than the main game, considering that each stage really has only two different colors, which are duplicated over eight palette indices in order to fuel the cycling palette-based animation.

[Cooljerk]

Neo, on 18 April 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

Cooljerk, on 18 April 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

MainMemory, on 18 April 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

Cooljerk, on 18 April 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

There is also highlight and shadow, too, don't forget those.

Sonic games generally don't use S/H, and for something like a palette comparison, I don't see why we'd need to show S/H variants.

They do, for example, in the save select screen and in the special stage in sonoc 3.

He said they don't generally use S/H. Shadow/Highlight mode is used in a grand total of two places in the whole series, both of them in Sonic 3, and you managed to get one of them wrong. It's the competition character select that uses it, not the Data Select.

The point is, the mode is so underused, there's no point in recording or displaying S/H info for everything. You'd at most document the special stage shadow colors, but then again, you're probably better off documenting the special stage palettes differently than the main game, considering that each stage really has only two different colors, which are duplicated over eight palette indices in order to fuel the cycling palette-based animation.

...we're talking, what 8 new shades total? Is bandwidth at that much of a premium, that we can't spare 8 lines of text to note additional color values? Since palette rotation is such a huge part of the way the Special Stage works, shoudn't we document every color that appears in them? Isn't that the point of such a technical wiki?

and you missed the point of the conversation, in the first place. I wasn't saying "let's include shadow and highlight values for every palette." I was commenting on MM's post that said those were the only palette steps the Genesis could do, which was for the benefit of BS's conversion from hex values for the wiki. Since it makes sense to include those Shadow values in the special stages, I was adding to MM's post that there are additional values to consider. If BS is going to, through CSS, programattically generate colors to display on the wiki from 9-bit hex values as accurately to the genesis as possible, he should know every color the genesis can generate. Not just the normal steps. That's just smart thinking.

This post has been edited by Cooljerk: 18 April 2018 - 06:18 PM

[Ralakimus]

I have a few more maps now. I have Wood Zone and all of Metropolis Zone now.






EDIT: Accidentally missed an object definition. Fixed. Also added to the wiki.
EDIT 2: Added missing platform and cogs at the end of MTZ3

This post has been edited by Ralakimus: 18 April 2018 - 07:47 PM

[GoldS]

The Metropolis Act 3 map needs to be extended a tad. That is where the chunks end, but there's one of those movement-activated moving platforms on the bottom-right where the path ends.