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Sonic 3 & Knuckles undocumented glitch

#31 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 13 December 2016 - 04:02 PM

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View PostNeo, on 13 December 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostThe Growler, on 12 December 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

That begs the question as to why it's called "DE-BUG" Mode in the first place.

"Debug mode" is a fan moniker, Sonic Jam calls it "edit mode".

I encountered the term well before venturing online - I would imagine it came from Sega of America when cheats were officially revealed.

#32 User is offline winterhell 

Posted 13 December 2016 - 04:19 PM

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If 'anything goes' then spawning a boss object when the graphics are not loaded can also be considered a bug,
Or using Game Genie to modify a random address.
Or Plugging the cart out of the system while running. In the instruction manual doesn't say to not do that. Its the game's fault the system freezes.

#33 User is offline kazblox 

Posted 13 December 2016 - 04:39 PM

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It's called Edit Mode in the leftover source code that was found in Sonic 2's "Nick Arcade" prototype also:

Quote

Posted Image


#34 User is offline DigitalDuck 

Posted 13 December 2016 - 08:23 PM

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View Postwinterhell, on 13 December 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

If 'anything goes' then spawning a boss object when the graphics are not loaded can also be considered a bug,
Or using Game Genie to modify a random address.
Or Plugging the cart out of the system while running. In the instruction manual doesn't say to not do that. Its the game's fault the system freezes.


Nobody said anything goes. I was pointing out the difference between a bug and a glitch. None of those things would be bugs, but they'd certainly be glitches.

#35 User is offline muteKi 

Posted 14 December 2016 - 02:51 AM

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View Postwinterhell, on 13 December 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Or Plugging the cart out of the system while running. In the instruction manual doesn't say to not do that. Its the game's fault the system freezes.


Hotswapping Sonic 2's cart is probably the easiest way to get level select set in Sonic 3 though ;)

#36 User is offline Tiddles 

Posted 14 December 2016 - 04:16 AM

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View PostBlack Squirrel, on 13 December 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

I encountered the term well before venturing online - I would imagine it came from Sega of America when cheats were officially revealed.

Most of the cheat references in magazines/guides I saw in the UK in the nineties referred to it as "level design mode", a term that seems to have been almost completely lost to time, apart from this one presumably ancient cheat page.

As a youngster, this terminology left me quite disappointed when I realised any changes would disappear as soon as I simply moved away - but I don't know if I'd ever even have bothered putting in a code for "debug mode", which sounds pretty boring.

#37 User is offline Chibisteven 

Posted 14 December 2016 - 04:21 AM

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View PostmuteKi, on 14 December 2016 - 02:51 AM, said:

View Postwinterhell, on 13 December 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Or Plugging the cart out of the system while running. In the instruction manual doesn't say to not do that. Its the game's fault the system freezes.


Hotswapping Sonic 2's cart is probably the easiest way to get level select set in Sonic 3 though ;)/>


It has a lot to do with RAM addresses being the same with the level select enabled flag not being unset.

Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic 1 use a different RAM address than Sonic 2 & 3 but it's the same one between them. Sonic 3 & Knuckles will use Sonic 1 & Sonic & Knuckles' level select flag RAM address, I'm not sure if the swap would actually work here, though.
This post has been edited by Chibisteven: 14 December 2016 - 02:36 PM

#38 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted 14 December 2016 - 03:01 PM

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View PostBlack Squirrel, on 13 December 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

View PostNeo, on 13 December 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostThe Growler, on 12 December 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

That begs the question as to why it's called "DE-BUG" Mode in the first place.

"Debug mode" is a fan moniker, Sonic Jam calls it "edit mode".

I encountered the term well before venturing online - I would imagine it came from Sega of America when cheats were officially revealed.


The official Sonic 1 and 2 strategy guides call it debug mode. They were published in 1992.

EDIT: Just checked, it actually calls it the "Construction Set mode" but the Sonic 3/Sonic CD guide from 1994 calls it "Debug mode."

Also "Cheats! The ultimate guide for Genesis and SNES" from gamepro lists it as "debug mode' for Sonic 1, 2, and 3.

SWATPro also called it debug mode.
This post has been edited by Cooljerk: 14 December 2016 - 03:07 PM

#39 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 14 December 2016 - 03:47 PM

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Well okay then

http://retrocdn.net/...29.pdf&page=133

GamePro #29, "December 1991".

http://retrocdn.net/..._16.pdf&page=37

Mean Machines #16, "January 1992".

And there's a bunch in 1993 for Sonic 2.

#40 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted 14 December 2016 - 04:50 PM

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View PostBlack Squirrel, on 14 December 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

Well okay then

http://retrocdn.net/...29.pdf&page=133

GamePro #29, "December 1991".

http://retrocdn.net/..._16.pdf&page=37

Mean Machines #16, "January 1992".

And there's a bunch in 1993 for Sonic 2.


I'm guessing the term isn't actually from Sega, then. Any idea what the debug mode in Ghouls n Ghosts was referred to?

#41 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 14 December 2016 - 05:17 PM

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View PostCooljerk, on 14 December 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

I'm guessing the term isn't actually from Sega, then.

It still could be - I don't know how cheat codes were distributed at the time (and I mean they surely must have been distributed - I don't think it's feasible to expect kids in 1992 trying to decipher "19, 65, 09, 17" and I certainly don't buy the idea of the masses having access to development tools).


Personally I don't think it has an "official" name but it's safe to call it "debug mode" just as it's safe to call something a "level select", even if in Sonic we deal in Acts and Zones (and Stages if they're special). Otherwise we're taking a trip down pedantic street (to which you can point out that on the Mega Drive, buttons are called "triggers"... and good luck expecting every game manual to stick to that naming scheme).

#42 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted 14 December 2016 - 05:22 PM

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View PostBlack Squirrel, on 14 December 2016 - 05:17 PM, said:

View PostCooljerk, on 14 December 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

I'm guessing the term isn't actually from Sega, then.

It still could be - I don't know how cheat codes were distributed at the time (and I mean they surely must have been distributed - I don't think it's feasible to expect kids in 1992 trying to decipher "19, 65, 09, 17" and I certainly don't buy the idea of the masses having access to development tools).


Personally I don't think it has an "official" name but it's safe to call it "debug mode" just as it's safe to call something a "level select", even if in Sonic we deal in Acts and Zones (and Stages if they're special). Otherwise we're taking a trip down pedantic street (to which you can point out that on the Mega Drive, buttons are called "triggers"... and good luck expecting every game manual to stick to that naming scheme).


If it were by Sega, however, certainly it would have shown up under that name in the official Sonic 1 and 2 Strategy guide, though. That guide is dripping with official sega stuff, including a reprint of the "uncle chuck" comic and a bunch of SoA merch at the back. It's pedantic, sure, but it's fun to discuss. I was thinking maybe it was a GamePro term that caught on, but that Mean Machines link makes it seem like the term was international.

EDIT: Re: Distributed codes, many times codes were printed with the submitting author if they were found by a user. The code in that game pro scan lacks citation, so perhaps it was indeed from SoA.
This post has been edited by Cooljerk: 14 December 2016 - 05:23 PM

#43 User is offline LordOfSquad 

Posted 14 December 2016 - 05:25 PM

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View Postkazblox, on 13 December 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

It's called Edit Mode in the leftover source code that was found in Sonic 2's "Nick Arcade" prototype also:

Quote

Posted Image



This seems pretty definitive as far as a name goes to me. What could be more official than the developer's own term for it?

#44 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted 14 December 2016 - 05:32 PM

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View PostLordOfSquad, on 14 December 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

This seems pretty definitive as far as a name goes to me. What could be more official than the developer's own term for it?


The Devs of Sonic 3 & Knuckles use the term "Super Emeralds" but they officially do not exist :v:/>/>

Similarly, didn't parts of Sonic Adventure 2 refer to Shadow as Terios, and I'm sure parts of Sonic & Tails 2 would refer to the character as "Fang" but "shadow" and "nack" are official names...

Then there is the whole "Robotnik/Eggman" deal...
This post has been edited by Cooljerk: 14 December 2016 - 05:35 PM

#45 User is offline Crappy Blue Luigi 

Posted 14 December 2016 - 05:48 PM

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All the more reason to call Modern Sonic "Generic Sonic", I say.

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