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Any 2D resources for Modern Sonic moves/skills?

#16 User is offline Felik 

Posted 25 December 2015 - 10:08 AM

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View PostTimmiT, on 25 December 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

View PostFelik, on 25 December 2015 - 01:48 AM, said:

I'm so tempted to opensource my engine just to make you stop mumbling around about how much MMF/CF sucks for making a freaking Sonic fangame. SW is packed with features and yes it's extremely difficult to edit/add new features but actual reasons for that is that it's very poorly programmed and as any freaking engine in existence needs to be studied (and studied hard) to be understood.
CF2.5 is more than enough if you just wanna make a Sonic fangame. You just have to not suck at making code and actually have more than superficial knowledge of how to work in it.

So wait, people should stop complaining about how much MMF/CF sucks, cause it doesn't suck cause it's very poorly programmed?

Uuuh

No no, MMF/CF sucks hard if you wanna make anything more or less unusual and challenging (and not strictly in 2D) that would also not be unoptimized as shit. But 2D Sonic fangames are not rocket science, especially ones that imitate classic/advance/rush gameplay so MMF/CF is more than enough for that cause it's accessible, easy to use and has a ton of examples/engines.

If I was to learn a game making environment today I would definitely not use MMF/CF or Gamemaker for sure.
This post has been edited by Felik: 25 December 2015 - 10:10 AM

#17 User is offline winterhell 

Posted 25 December 2015 - 11:13 AM

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View PostCommandanteStreakTH, on 25 December 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

View PostAerosol, on 25 December 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

Anyway, Commandante, I don't think you need to worry about "best" right now. Pick a development environment, and stick with it. Make a one level game to get a feel for things, and maybe you'll decide you want to try something else. You sound like you've got some learning to do, and I don't think making a full fangame serves as that great of a learning experience.


I think I understand what you mean. If so then, what's a good balance between learning how GameMaker works and helping out with the actual project?


Start using any engine or programming language and practice, practice, practice. Then practice again. Take a tutorial. Implement it. Try to understand why it was used like that, change things a bit. When you need to do something, don't think about ' has somebody done this before, can I copy it verbatim so I don't have to do anything'. This is not a test in school on a subject that would never be of use to you in your life.
Break problems into smaller parts.
You want to do an air dash. What do you need? You need to read the state of the B button. To raise a flag that you are in the air dash state. To change the character horizontal velocity. How do you switch animations? etc.

Programming is hard, and so is 'scripting'. You need to spend much time to get good at it.
If its not for you, then you have to be even better at drawing so that the programmers who can implement those things would be remotely interested in *your* *unpaid* project.

Doesnt matter that much which engine you'll pick. You can do everything on all of them. Yes all of them are relatively slow and crappy. Relatively, because that drawback is offset by the current speed of the hardware. Your game runs 100 times slower than Sonic & Knuckles Collection? Well you are not going to play it on Pentium 1 75MHz anyway, right?

#18 User is offline CommandanteStreakTH 

Posted 25 December 2015 - 06:34 PM

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View Postwinterhell, on 25 December 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

View PostCommandanteStreakTH, on 25 December 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

View PostAerosol, on 25 December 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

Anyway, Commandante, I don't think you need to worry about "best" right now. Pick a development environment, and stick with it. Make a one level game to get a feel for things, and maybe you'll decide you want to try something else. You sound like you've got some learning to do, and I don't think making a full fangame serves as that great of a learning experience.


I think I understand what you mean. If so then, what's a good balance between learning how GameMaker works and helping out with the actual project?


Start using any engine or programming language and practice, practice, practice. Then practice again. Take a tutorial. Implement it. Try to understand why it was used like that, change things a bit. When you need to do something, don't think about ' has somebody done this before, can I copy it verbatim so I don't have to do anything'. This is not a test in school on a subject that would never be of use to you in your life.
Break problems into smaller parts.
You want to do an air dash. What do you need? You need to read the state of the B button. To raise a flag that you are in the air dash state. To change the character horizontal velocity. How do you switch animations? etc.

Programming is hard, and so is 'scripting'. You need to spend much time to get good at it.
If its not for you, then you have to be even better at drawing so that the programmers who can implement those things would be remotely interested in *your* *unpaid* project.

Doesnt matter that much which engine you'll pick. You can do everything on all of them. Yes all of them are relatively slow and crappy. Relatively, because that drawback is offset by the current speed of the hardware. Your game runs 100 times slower than Sonic & Knuckles Collection? Well you are not going to play it on Pentium 1 75MHz anyway, right?


Well thanks anyways. Really, the thing is I never thought that I could ever make my game because my knowledge in programming and design is at state zero, but after I found some people who volunteered to be on the team anyway because they liked my idea, it sorta came to me like shock therapy. Now I'm confused what to do since I didn't go with my plan of learning how to make a game with either engine (w/coding vs w/o coding) before I publicly present it, I already have a team running so I'm not sure if I still have the time to learn when I have other responsibilities to do, and I'm not sure if I'm a decent artist enough, let alone the fact that, even if I was a good artist, I just work far too slowly. I'm not supposed to be ready for this but we're going with it anyways because I think we need to do this before Sonic dies, to preserve the franchise's dignity. I'm probably being too harsh on myself, but I'm just not sure what the next step should be. I wasn't ready for any of this, but then again, maybe I never was. Now I just have to work with what I've got. I know the developer community quite well and how demanding it can be, and it makes me feel like I don't have the skills to do any of this. I'm probably just being too hard on myself, but I don't know. I want to be a part of the development process so my team doesn't find me to be demanding or bossy, because there's a lot of ideas that have to be implemented in our project, and I want to keep their morale up.
This post has been edited by CommandanteStreakTH: 25 December 2015 - 06:52 PM

#19 User is offline Mr Lange 

Posted 25 December 2015 - 07:21 PM

  • A wise guy eh. I know how to DEAL with wise guys.
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Felik, MMF2/CF2.5 is shitty. It has critical disadvantages that can easily stunt development. It's simple but it's simple in some of the worst possible ways.
If he were just making a simple Sonic fangame, I'd say sure, it'd probably be fine, even if still not an optimal way to go.
However, he's said here that he intends to expand the gameplay with new abilities and some sort of stat building system. That's already asking for a lot of trouble, and he'd ultimately be better off learning a starting language like GML and working with a more flexible system.

#20 User is offline winterhell 

Posted 26 December 2015 - 04:00 AM

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View PostCommandanteStreakTH, on 25 December 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

Now I'm confused what to do since I didn't go with my plan of learning how to make a game with either engine (w/coding vs w/o coding) before I publicly present it, I already have a team running so I'm not sure if I still have the time to learn when I have other responsibilities to do, and I'm not sure if I'm a decent artist enough, let alone the fact that, even if I was a good artist, I just work far too slowly. I want to be a part of the development process so my team doesn't find me to be demanding or bossy, because there's a lot of ideas that have to be implemented in our project, and I want to keep their morale up.

You say you have several programmers on the team. Are they actually good, are they coding more than 30 minutes on an odd weekend?

How serious are you about this project? Do you yourself spend only 30 minutes a day or less? If so maybe you should focus on the 2 part time jobs you are working on and feeding your kids first. If you are in high school you have ZERO excuse for not putting like 20 hours a week in the project.

People wont think you are bossy or demanding if you are actually doing work.
And for the last time(heard this many times from many people) talking/discussing the project with other people/team members does not count towards work.

P.S. Sonic wont 'die' or anything. That doesn't even have any relevance to fan games. Your project will not 'save' anything.

#21 User is offline CommandanteStreakTH 

Posted 26 December 2015 - 06:23 AM

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View Postwinterhell, on 26 December 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

View PostCommandanteStreakTH, on 25 December 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

Now I'm confused what to do since I didn't go with my plan of learning how to make a game with either engine (w/coding vs w/o coding) before I publicly present it, I already have a team running so I'm not sure if I still have the time to learn when I have other responsibilities to do, and I'm not sure if I'm a decent artist enough, let alone the fact that, even if I was a good artist, I just work far too slowly. I want to be a part of the development process so my team doesn't find me to be demanding or bossy, because there's a lot of ideas that have to be implemented in our project, and I want to keep their morale up.

You say you have several programmers on the team. Are they actually good, are they coding more than 30 minutes on an odd weekend?

How serious are you about this project? Do you yourself spend only 30 minutes a day or less? If so maybe you should focus on the 2 part time jobs you are working on and feeding your kids first. If you are in high school you have ZERO excuse for not putting like 20 hours a week in the project.

People wont think you are bossy or demanding if you are actually doing work.
And for the last time(heard this many times from many people) talking/discussing the project with other people/team members does not count towards work.

P.S. Sonic wont 'die' or anything. That doesn't even have any relevance to fan games. Your project will not 'save' anything.


Alright, just keep it cool man... It's just that we're so early in development we should focus on programming and development, and I'm more of an artist and writer than a programmer. It's my life dream though, so I am dedicated to it, it's just I'm not sure what to do next... Probably try animating a couple sprites. I have an unorthodox development process in mind though, it's... something...

I've been mobbed by the game developer community once, I'm certainly not letting it happen twice...

P.S. Well I have faith in you. I think I'm sick of hearing Sonic fans saying Sonic is "dead". As for "saving the franchise", it is exaggerated language, but really, it only makes sense in context.
This post has been edited by CommandanteStreakTH: 26 December 2015 - 06:52 AM

#22 User is offline winterhell 

Posted 26 December 2015 - 07:09 AM

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Don't worry. I have your best interest in mind.
This is how things are with fan and indie games. I've learned to strive to be more and more independent of others.
If you are lucky and came across great people, by all means keep that bridge.

Sorry if I came about as an ass :)

#23 User is offline CommandanteStreakTH 

Posted 26 December 2015 - 07:19 AM

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View Postwinterhell, on 26 December 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

Don't worry. I have your best interest in mind.
This is how things are with fan and indie games. I've learned to strive to be more and more independent of others.
If you are lucky and came across great people, by all means keep that bridge.

Sorry if I came about as an ass :)/>


*Phew* Well that's a relief. Anyways, I'm going to see how much I can squeeze my own work in while still letting others to shine.

In truth, I have a programmer on my team so dedicated to the project it's making me ashamed of myself of how I'm not contributing enough.
This post has been edited by CommandanteStreakTH: 26 December 2015 - 08:26 AM

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