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Sonic 06 PC Remake

#16 User is offline Faseeh 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 06:18 AM

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View PostFelik, on 08 December 2015 - 03:26 AM, said:

Fuck you guys.
This already looks better than 95% of fans' attempts at creating a 3D Sonic fangame.
If so many people praise and try to recreate Sonic 06 then there are aspect of this game to be enjoyed.
I'd play Sonic 06 over SLW or ShTH any day.

My only hope is that controls are keyboard only/gamepad rather than keyboard + mouse for camera.


Not all that glitters is gold. :P

I admit it's impressive too, so much work and it's a 1:1 attempt and it takes time and effort to reach that. Problem is there's a lot of inherent flaws in 06 that just won't be fixed the way this is going.

(though the stages might become fun if the gameplay style and physics were made more like a hybrid of Generations and Adventure)

#17 User is offline Felik 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 06:55 AM

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View PostFaseeh, on 08 December 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

View PostFelik, on 08 December 2015 - 03:26 AM, said:

Fuck you guys.
This already looks better than 95% of fans' attempts at creating a 3D Sonic fangame.
If so many people praise and try to recreate Sonic 06 then there are aspect of this game to be enjoyed.
I'd play Sonic 06 over SLW or ShTH any day.

My only hope is that controls are keyboard only/gamepad rather than keyboard + mouse for camera.


Not all that glitters is gold. :P

I admit it's impressive too, so much work and it's a 1:1 attempt and it takes time and effort to reach that. Problem is there's a lot of inherent flaws in 06 that just won't be fixed the way this is going.

(though the stages might become fun if the gameplay style and physics were made more like a hybrid of Generations and Adventure)

Except people here act like the only two things that glitter are either gold or shit.
Sure I'd prefer a Sonic Adventure-esq physics and level design, but what I see before my eyes looks not only impressive but also playable and even enjoyable.

#18 User is offline TimmiT 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 07:18 AM

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View PostFelik, on 08 December 2015 - 06:55 AM, said:

Except people here act like the only two things that glitter are either gold or shit.
Sure I'd prefer a Sonic Adventure-esq physics and level design, but what I see before my eyes looks not only impressive but also playable and even enjoyable.

Playable? sure. Enjoyable? Well if that's the case or not is of course subjective but also noooooo. It's not that we all think that something's either just great or terrible, it's just that Sonic 2006 is actually legitimately a terrible game.

Like others have said: this is incredibly impressive. I'm amazed that these people managed to remake Sonic 2006 so close to the original on PC.

But also, Sonic 2006 is a terrible game. I don't need to go over the reasons why, plenty of people have already explained why over the years and it's pretty much an accepted fact at this point. It's so shit that even SEGA themselves make fun of the game. I don't think that many people who know how hard it is to make a game would react to this in any other way as "this is really impressive but also why????".
This post has been edited by TimmiT: 08 December 2015 - 07:31 AM

#19 User is offline Atendega 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 08:17 AM

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So sick of people who don't have a clue what they're talking about criticizing Sonic 06. There were bad elements, but anything that was actually FINISHED was excellent. Sonic 06 had incredible level design, the weak link was the engine itself.

#20 User is offline Xeal 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 08:22 AM

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View PostAtendega, on 08 December 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

So sick of people who don't have a clue what they're talking about criticizing Sonic 06. There were bad elements, but anything that was actually FINISHED was excellent.


Which was literally only the soundtrack. Last I checked that's not a gameplay element.

View PostAtendega, on 08 December 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Sonic 06 had incredible level design, the weak link was the engine itself.


ENGINE.
Seriously. The weak link wasn't the fucking Havok Engine. The weak link was the devs not implementing (or reverting (see the change in the homing attack from the E3 demo to the released version)), good momentum based physics. Stop throwing buzzwords around.
This post has been edited by Xeal: 08 December 2015 - 08:22 AM

#21 User is offline Falk 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 08:57 AM

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Dis thread going places fast~

#22 User is offline Faseeh 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 09:08 AM

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View PostAtendega, on 08 December 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

06 had incredible level design, the weak link was the engine itself.




Sorry, but. 06's level design has good moments, I agree, but there are too many bad moments in there too to call it incredible. Granted Sonic has the better levels but even he isn't free from Aquatic Base's ball or the Mach Speed sections. I like some of the level design in 06 too and Generations ports have shown their potential but yeah.

I think there were good ideas in 06, which could be used for a remake and be amazing. The ambition, an updated Sonic Adventure like gameplay, lack of genre roulette. The way this remake is going isn't going to to touch that, it'll still be a technically outstanding remake but that is about it.
This post has been edited by Faseeh: 08 December 2015 - 09:09 AM

#23 User is offline Azookara 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 09:08 AM

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I've been watching this for months and have been totally fascinated with the project.

Not because I like the general idea, no. But the fact that there's so much effort being put into this to make it as 1:1 as possible, and how incredible it is that they've got that close to replicating it. I just don't understand and will never understand why anyone who ever touches upon 06 doesn't want to fix it but instead just copy everything about it as if it had no problems besides loading times and certain glitches..

This is everything that Sonic 2006 2D project was, and then some. Just why? Why not actually change the mechanics and a few bits of it to improve the game's quality, instead of sticking with ideas that made it so bad in the first place? I mean yeah you could always end up liking those concepts and ideas 06 had, but that only adds to how amazingly happenstance the entire project is.

A small group with immaculate amounts of skill genuinely like and want to verbatim remake one of the worst games ever made (and this isn't even the first fan game to do this)... it's just funny how that kind of thing turns out. I mean, more power to them, I guess? It's just amazing because it makes you wonder where those kind of people are for different better games.
This post has been edited by Azookara: 08 December 2015 - 09:10 AM

#24 User is offline Atendega 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 09:24 AM

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View PostXeal, on 08 December 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

View PostAtendega, on 08 December 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Sonic 06 had incredible level design, the weak link was the engine itself.


ENGINE.
Seriously. The weak link wasn't the fucking Havok Engine. The weak link was the devs not implementing (or reverting (see the change in the homing attack from the E3 demo to the released version)), good momentum based physics. Stop throwing buzzwords around.
I'm NOT "throwing buzzwords around". Sonic 06 ran on a proprietary engine. Havok is not a game engine, it is a PHYSICS engine, used selectively to add realistic physics to certain objects. I'm not talking about Havok.

#25 User is offline Azookara 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 09:46 AM

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As if 06 being given momentum based movement would even fix all of it's problems anyways.

There's also the way the level design is built for automation in specific areas, which would have to be changed if you don't want the game to continuously play itself. Then there's the Spin Dash, which would need to actually move like a Spin Dash to not feel really clunky and strange to control. Then there's the "too many moves on one button" problem that'd have to be fixed because noone at Sega seemed to think that was a good idea until 2008, and then there's the cheap shot death pits surrounding every possible corner that'd have to be improved upon somewhat to be bearable (meaning building more level design). Then the combat system (and the lack of ability to hit enemies with a regular jump) would have to be severely changed / removed just to make the game less tedious and stop-and-go.

Then the art style would have to be improved somewhat to be less bland and dull.. and the models for characters and NPCs changed to actually look like Sonic stuff and not really ugly or out of place (probably changed to Unleashed style or something like it).. and then the story changed to be less confusing and dumb super-serious junk..

This is what I mean. The game's got so many problems from all directions that fixing one thing isn't going to fix everything else. While a few people in particular may just so happen to like most of the game's design decisions, most believe the game to be pretty bad on all fronts, and to make this game good would require such a huge reimagining that it wouldn't even be the same game anymore.

It'd be interesting, though, which is why I wish the talents behind this would've been for something like that, but I digress.
This post has been edited by Azookara: 08 December 2015 - 09:46 AM

#26 User is offline Xeal 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 09:49 AM

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Derp. Atendega my apologies :v:
Either way how is it the fault of the engine? The devs are the ones who use the engine to make what they want. If they utilize it poorly that is the fault of the developers, not the engine they used. That's like saying for instance someone who sat down to code a project in let's say, Java or C++, and the project turns out to be a buggy mess, which was a result due to poor coding and testing, but instead of blaming the programmers, you blame the language itself
(Unless I'm missing something here I.e. the proprietary engine they used was shit to begin with but I highly doubt that).
This post has been edited by Xeal: 08 December 2015 - 09:50 AM

#27 User is offline Atendega 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 09:57 AM

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View PostXeal, on 08 December 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Derp. Atendega my apologies :v:/>
Either way how is it the fault of the engine? The devs are the ones who use the engine to make what they want. If they utilize it poorly that is the fault of the developers, not the engine they used. That's like saying for instance someone who sat down to code a project in let's say, Java or C++, and the project turns out to be a buggy mess, which was a result due to poor coding and testing, but instead of blaming the programmers, you blame the language itself
(Unless I'm missing something here I.e. the proprietary engine they used was shit to begin with but I highly doubt that).

Apology accepted :eng101:
In any case, what I mean is that they made the game engine from scratch, instead of using a pre-existing one. Therefore, the engine itself is unfinished.

#28 User is offline winterhell 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 10:18 AM

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There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the engine.
They implemented buggy objects and gimmicks. Put the collision threshold so that when you run from the street to the sidewalk you trip over. Screwed up spawning points. Cutscenes playing differently (and deadly) depending on which of the 2 adjacent speed boosters you took. There are many examples.

Those are all things that are the gameplay programmers' fault.
They were understaffed with hard unreasonable deadlines or something and couldn't get to all the bugs.
That itself leads to the loading times. Yes they are huge, yes there are often 5 second scenes preceded and followed by 1 minute long loading, and at each loading the game probably refreshes everything from scratch. They probably knew this, but it has lowest possible priority after all the features are implemented, and then after its bugtested. When you are rushing to implement features and make the game at least playable from start to finish, the last thing you want to do is derail manhours to a nonessential feature improvement that is likely to cause additional unforseen bugs along the way.

With the bugs and loading times out of the way, the game could probably have gotten much higher score, like 3/10 higher or something.
This post has been edited by winterhell: 08 December 2015 - 10:22 AM

#29 User is offline Atendega 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 10:28 AM

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I wasn't saying there was anything fundamentally wrong with the engine, it's just that a lot of it is badly implemented.

#30 User is offline Mors 

Posted 08 December 2015 - 11:30 AM

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Sonic 06 is bad. But not just because it was rushed. It's bad because it has tons of questionable design choices. The story was garbage, hub worlds were boring, momentum was weird, some characters were pointless and having to play the same stage over 3 times was a pretty bad idea. And fixing these problems would make the game really different. This is a remake, not a reimagination, so I wouldn't expect to see a fixed Sonic 06 like 90% of YouTube. I just expect small changes like better controls, no town missions and fixed glitches.
This post has been edited by Mors: 08 December 2015 - 11:31 AM

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