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Is there a 'Sonic Maker' or equivalent?

#16 User is offline TimmiT 

Posted 26 September 2015 - 06:23 PM

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Hey Mr Lange why are you ignoring my post in which I pointed out that a popular level creator game where you can make your own geometry and stuff was already made seven years ago? Aside from that, at this point that series of games has evolved to a point where you can make your own gimmicks and stuff. :specialed:

Heck, it's not even that hard to conceptualize how stuff like how you could let people easily make differently sized loops. Here's a badly made example I made in Paint in five minutes:

Posted Image

Now I just wait SEGA to give me lots of money for this groundbreaking idea that wasn't taken from Trackmania.
This post has been edited by TimmiT: 26 September 2015 - 06:37 PM

#17 User is offline DigitalDuck 

Posted 26 September 2015 - 06:55 PM

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Also it doesn't need to be able to create every single level. I mean, Super Mario Maker can't make most of the levels from the games the styles come from due to various limitations as well as missing most of the enemies, environments, and so on.

A Sonic Maker equivalent would be limited to just a few zones too.

#18 User is offline Mr Lange 

Posted 26 September 2015 - 08:50 PM

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View PostTimmiT, on 26 September 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

Hey Mr Lange why are you ignoring my post in which I pointed out that a popular level creator game where you can make your own geometry and stuff was already made seven years ago?

I didn't ignore it, I just didn't know what to say, and I barely know LBP.
Frankly if Sonic Team makes a level editor that's both intuitive and capable of sculpting any form of terrain, they should be using it themselves for original games long before turning it into a public level creator. Mario Maker is a logical step since Mario's formula has been nailed and iterated for decades. Sonic has not only floundered for over a decade, the 2d mechanics and game design have actually regressed to the point of being broken at the basics and overall a sloppy thoughtless mess.
This post has been edited by Mr Lange: 26 September 2015 - 08:53 PM

#19 User is offline winterhell 

Posted 27 September 2015 - 02:21 AM

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Sega can't even make something barely entertaining the idea 'What if S3K actually had 6 more zones'.

#20 User is offline Falk 

Posted 27 September 2015 - 03:06 AM

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I mean, it's not black and white. Take it to its logical conclusion - MMF/Game Maker/Unity etc. are great basic platforms to make momentum-based platformers (HEH) but in the end there's still limitations vs e.g. doing everything in native code. Any simple drag-and-drop(-and-carve) level editor style of layout editing has similar limitations, just further along that gradient towards prefabs. Which side of the gradient it tends towards boils down to both the ingenuity of the people designing the level editor, and the ingenuity of the people designing the levels. This is true for Mario Maker as well, despite Mario's 'simpler' nature.

#21 User is offline BlazeHedgehog 

Posted 27 September 2015 - 07:37 AM

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View PostDigitalDuck, on 26 September 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

Also it doesn't need to be able to create every single level. I mean, Super Mario Maker can't make most of the levels from the games the styles come from due to various limitations as well as missing most of the enemies, environments, and so on.

A Sonic Maker equivalent would be limited to just a few zones too.


When I was trying to port/remake PlaySEGA's Sonic Level Creator, the general idea was to implement all of the PlaySEGA tiles and then add in a few other tile types and gimmicks for diversity purposes. (a little bit of Chemical Plant Zone stuff, conveyor belts, etc.)

So you'd still only be trapped in the one included tileset, but at least you could make the most of it.

#22 User is offline The Growler 

Posted 28 September 2015 - 05:00 PM

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What about a program that creates a randomly generated levels (which of course would need basic rules, like to make sure the path doesn't just come to a dead end)? How feasible would that be? Although it could just make levels far too generic and boring.
This post has been edited by The Growler: 28 September 2015 - 05:02 PM

#23 User is offline DigitalDuck 

Posted 28 September 2015 - 06:52 PM

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View PostThe Growler, on 28 September 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

What about a program that creates a randomly generated levels (which of course would need basic rules, like to make sure the path doesn't just come to a dead end)? How feasible would that be? Although it could just make levels far too generic and boring.


Yeah, a few of us have tried that. I need to get back to S1RL. ;)

#24 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:54 AM

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View PostThe Growler, on 28 September 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

What about a program that creates a randomly generated levels (which of course would need basic rules, like to make sure the path doesn't just come to a dead end)? How feasible would that be? Although it could just make levels far too generic and boring.

They already made that it's Sonic Runners :specialed:

#25 User is offline DigitalDuck 

Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:58 AM

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That's hardly randomly generated levels. That's a set of about eight levels strung together in a random order with some random items in.

#26 User is offline Laura 

Posted 29 September 2015 - 11:25 AM

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I think you could make a fun enough 'Sonic Maker' with Sonic Worlds, using pre-existing tiles to make personal fun little levels. Hmm, maybe someone should get on that really :p

I mean, it's not like we need every personal fan level to be on the level of After the Sequel :v:

#27 User is offline Jayextee 

Posted 29 September 2015 - 01:57 PM

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The toughest part of a Sonic Maker, the geometry, could possibly be done using a variant of the original game's 256x256 chunks; except automatically 'smoothed' by the engine if tiles are not joined to adjacent ones. When I first got into layout editing via the original SonEd, I found this to be simple as hell to figure out; having hardly had the best track record in figuring out apparently simple hacking techniques.

#28 User is offline Lapper 

Posted 30 September 2015 - 09:17 AM

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I made this https://info.sonicre...org/Sonic_Maker
but I was young and it was awful. Worked as well as I had desired it to however.

I don't think creating or placing level chunks down like Sonic games are actually built would be fun at all. I'd like to see an editor that gives intuitive direct access to the level geometry, a bit like the 2D polygon collision in Unity where you can create/delete and move points to create any shape you like. The program would fill in the visuals, and objects such as loops can be placed down, and they connect with the polygonal ground and handles can be used to change the size of them in any direction.

Would be fun.

#29 User is offline DerZocker 

Posted 30 September 2015 - 11:56 AM

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I'm trying to get my head around on how the graphics itself could work considering the possibility to give them an individual look. Imagine a basic square example chunk. It could be overlayed either with a geometrical pattern (think GHZ, PPZ and so on) and/or a themed graphic set. Afterwards you choose a floor, the basic colors and a backdrop to match it.
So kinda like what Chimera mentioned.
With an approach like this, the created zones would at least get an individual look, though that still wouldn't solve the other issues like stage specific gimmicks and this stuff. I suppose all the stuff from S&K's Death Egg Zone for example would be really complicated to make it fit for any other level. And I'm only talking from a design standpoint here

#30 User is offline Jayextee 

Posted 30 September 2015 - 12:15 PM

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View PostLapper, on 30 September 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

I don't think creating or placing level chunks down like Sonic games are actually built would be fun at all. I'd like to see an editor that gives intuitive direct access to the level geometry, a bit like the 2D polygon collision in Unity where you can create/delete and move points to create any shape you like.


A layman's idea of fun in this case though, would be how easily they can create or edit a level without prior knowledge or study.

Simplicity of use or depth of control? Pick one.

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