Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board: Let's criticise classic Sonic gameplay. - Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board

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Let's criticise classic Sonic gameplay. Or criticize, if you prefer.

#31 User is offline Covarr 

Posted 21 July 2015 - 11:56 AM

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View PostDeef, on 21 July 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

In my opinion, character was possibly the biggest fault of Sonic's shields when compared to Mario's suits. Shields only feel like tools. That's totally fine, but when you think of Mario's suits with all that character in comparison, you kind of feel that fun that suits just put in your mind. I'm not suggesting Sonic games should have copied that, it would look cheap, but Sonic Colours definitely added character to its powerups and that definitely added appeal to them, and to the game.

I kinda disagree with this one. While they don't have maybe as much character as Mario's suits, they are designed to complement Sonic in specific. They are balls. He is a ball. I think they suit the aesthetic of the games and are a good fit for Sonic.

#32 User is offline Ayu Tsukimiya 

Posted 21 July 2015 - 12:18 PM

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View PostYeow, on 21 July 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

View PostDigitalDuck, on 19 July 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

I don't like how similar the different characters play in S3K.

Sonic is supposed to be fast. That's great. Sonic is supposed to curl into a ball. That's great too.
Tails being fast? I guess he was trying to be like Sonic, that maybe makes sense. Tails rolling into a ball? No, now he's just Sonic.
Knuckles rolling into a ball? He's the antagonist, you'd expect him to have attacks; echidnas roll into balls too. Knuckles being fast? I thought he was supposed to be the powerful punchy one? Now he's just Sonic.

It makes the three characters feel a bit too much like clones. The only thing separating the characters are what happens when you press jump while already in the air, in all other aspects they're identical (well, Knuckles has a lower jump height, I guess).

One reason I love Sonic Advance is the inclusion of Amy; she actually plays differently. She's still fast like the others, but doesn't curl into a ball, requiring a second button to attack.

I'm not going to claim I prefer it this way to Sonic's usual attack method; but as an alternate character, I welcome the change. I think making Knuckles slower would've helped round everything out completely.


I'm on the fence about this. When playing Amy in Advance, I sometimes feel like her moveset was designed for a different game rather than Sonic, and it doesn't gel with the level design at times. Which would mean I largely prefer the gameplay of Sonic...yet at the same time, I'm not really supportive of Sonic being the only playable character in his games nowadays, and still hope for the likes of characters like Tails and Knuckles to be playable again. So I largely prefer the standard gameplay/moveset, yet I still care about other characters being playable.


I think 2D Sonic games don't really have the kind of level design to make different play styles work, which is probably why it feels like Amy is a hard-mode character sometimes in Advance. CD was a step towards something different, and it sort of worked (a bit too cluttered, but they were onto something).

It's a shame that Boom was such a terrible game, because now Sonic Team might think that games with different playable characters are automatically doomed to be trash.

#33 User is online Felik 

Posted 21 July 2015 - 12:24 PM

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View PostAyu Tsukimiya, on 21 July 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

It's a shame that Boom was such a terrible game, because now Sonic Team might think that games with different playable characters are automatically doomed to be trash.

The very next game released by Sonic Team right after Sonic Boom has practically all the modern playable cast and 3 different playstyles.

#34 User is offline GerbilSoft 

Posted 21 July 2015 - 12:27 PM

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View PostFelik, on 21 July 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

View PostAyu Tsukimiya, on 21 July 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

It's a shame that Boom was such a terrible game, because now Sonic Team might think that games with different playable characters are automatically doomed to be trash.

The very next game released by Sonic Team right after Sonic Boom has practically all the modern playable cast and 3 different playstyles.

And runs at a solid 5 fps. :colbert: (Also, on my phone at least, it occasionally stops drawing frames for several seconds, then interpolates all the actions between the two frames, usually resulting in failure.)
This post has been edited by GerbilSoft: 21 July 2015 - 12:30 PM
Reason for edit: +more derp

#35 User is offline Ell678 

Posted 21 July 2015 - 01:20 PM

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Knuckles' Hidden Palace Zone is without a doubt the most engaging zone in Sonic history.

You want to talk about shit bosses? What about this piece of wank -
Posted Image

I really do not like Sonic CD, anyway, but on the off chance I do play it, this makes me rage.

#36 User is online Dark Sonic 

Posted 21 July 2015 - 01:41 PM

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View PostEll678, on 21 July 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

Knuckles' Hidden Palace Zone is without a doubt the most engaging zone in Sonic history.

You want to talk about shit bosses? What about this piece of wank -
Posted Image

I really do not like Sonic CD, anyway, but on the off chance I do play it, this makes me rage.

Most of Sonic CD's bosses were kinda trash IMO. The only interesting one was the Metal Sonic race. The rest range from pointlessly gimmicky to annoying.

#37 User is online Felik 

Posted 21 July 2015 - 01:55 PM

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View PostDark Sonic, on 21 July 2015 - 01:41 PM, said:

View PostEll678, on 21 July 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

Knuckles' Hidden Palace Zone is without a doubt the most engaging zone in Sonic history.

You want to talk about shit bosses? What about this piece of wank -
Posted Image

I really do not like Sonic CD, anyway, but on the off chance I do play it, this makes me rage.

Most of Sonic CD's bosses were kinda trash IMO. The only interesting one was the Metal Sonic race. The rest range from pointlessly gimmicky to annoying.

That's why it was such a huge disappointment Taxman didn't add the final final boss to the game. The concept sounded really cool and actual final boss was such a joke it's not even funny

#38 User is offline DigitalDuck 

Posted 21 July 2015 - 02:04 PM

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Tidal Tempest's boss is probably my favourite of all the bosses. Manages to be genuinely clever with what it does.

Collision Chaos boss is just frustrating, though. Luckily you can skip it. :v:

#39 User is offline synchronizer 

Posted 22 July 2015 - 10:00 AM

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I thought Wacky Workbench's was interesting. I suppose I'm in the minority, but I like CD a lot; the exploration element is fun to me.
For some reason 2 becomes boring for me somewhere around Mystic Cave.
This post has been edited by synchronizer: 22 July 2015 - 10:00 AM

#40 User is offline Blue Blood 

Posted 22 July 2015 - 11:48 AM

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This is actually way harder than it should be. Uh... CD's Time Travel is virtually useless. The Time Stones accomplish the same thing with a lot less hassle. It's seriously not fun to try and find the lone generator in those huge stages after going through the hassle of first finding a "past sign" and then getting enough speed. On top of that, literally what's even the point of going to the future? Good or bad future, there's absolutely no benefit to it. It's a mixture of poor design and convoluted design.

S1 is generally awesome, just less refined than the game that followed. S2 I can think of a couple of things for; Metropolis can be cheap as fuck and Sky Chase is really boring once the gimmick wears off. The Final Boss bothers me too. It's pretty cheap and leaves you with no chance to experiment or find a strategy before throwing a game over in your face. Design wise though the game is pretty sound.

And then that brings me to S3K, my favourite game ever. It's brilliant. The only real problem with it is that once you reach Hydrocity, the entire game sounds like this. Too many opportunities to enter the special stages, and too easy to go Super and kill any challenge the game might offer afterwards.

#41 User is online winterhell 

Posted 22 July 2015 - 12:28 PM

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View PostBlue Blood, on 22 July 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

And then that brings me to S3K, my favourite game ever. It's brilliant. The only real problem with it is that once you reach Hydrocity, the entire game sounds like this. Too many opportunities to enter the special stages, and too easy to go Super and kill any challenge the game might offer afterwards.


I wouldn't say that. The younger and/or less experienced players often do not manage to get all the emeralds even by the end of the last stage(S3 and S&K separately) despite trying. I agree with your point that the game is too easy and someone mentioned that it throws 1UPs at you. Maybe thats its main drawback, especially the difficulty drop in Mushroom Hill Zone.

#42 User is offline Deef 

Posted 22 July 2015 - 01:29 PM

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@Blue Blood

What if it was Sonic 3 with 4 (audio and visual) variations of every act? I'd be quite happy with that. Seriously... Past Icecap and Future Icecap..?? ysplz~~
This post has been edited by Deef: 22 July 2015 - 01:29 PM

#43 User is offline ErictheSquirrel 

Posted 22 July 2015 - 01:48 PM

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View Postsynchronizer, on 22 July 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

I thought Wacky Workbench's was interesting. I suppose I'm in the minority, but I like CD a lot; the exploration element is fun to me.
For some reason 2 becomes boring for me somewhere around Mystic Cave.


I can see where you're coming from on Sonic CD, the idea of it is great. What I'm not a big fan of when it comes to Sonic CD is the level design itself being...cluttered. Sonic 2's level design yeah, varies but I guess I prefer the format of Sonic 2 compared to CD, even if some levels are passable. Oil Ocean is a fun and interesting idea for a stage, but feels a little weird to platform around most of the time. Hill Top Zone is boring to me since it doesn't add much, mostly seesaws and lava :v: riveting.

The way exploration was handled in S3&K is the bits I enjoyed with CD thankfully

#44 User is offline Blue Blood 

Posted 22 July 2015 - 05:25 PM

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View Postwinterhell, on 22 July 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

I wouldn't say that. The younger and/or less experienced players often do not manage to get all the emeralds even by the end of the last stage(S3 and S&K separately) despite trying. I agree with your point that the game is too easy and someone mentioned that it throws 1UPs at you. Maybe thats its main drawback, especially the difficulty drop in Mushroom Hill Zone.

As a child, the first time I got the 7th Chaos Emerald was in Ice Cap 2 (I'd normally still not have them all by the time I'd reached Mushroom Hill), and I'd always struggle to get the 7th Super Emerald before Sandopolis 2. But the special stages are more so much more easily accessed in 3D than than in the others. There's no ring limit and they're hardly hidden at all really, at least aside from a very small number in the SK-hald. The game was definitely too lenient with them.

View PostDeef, on 22 July 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

What if it was Sonic 3 with 4 (audio and visual) variations of every act? I'd be quite happy with that. Seriously... Past Icecap and Future Icecap..?? ysplz~~

You mean Sonic 3 with time travel? Don't get me wrong, the time travel in CD is really awesome. Seeing all those variations is great. The problem is though that they serve little to no purpose in the gameplay. And actively seeking them out is such a chore it's just not worth it at all. Playing through CD without bothering about the Time Zones makes it a much better experience.

#45 User is offline Mr Lange 

Posted 24 July 2015 - 09:25 PM

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View PostBlue Blood, on 22 July 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

This is actually way harder than it should be. Uh... CD's Time Travel is virtually useless. The Time Stones accomplish the same thing with a lot less hassle. It's seriously not fun to try and find the lone generator in those huge stages after going through the hassle of first finding a "past sign" and then getting enough speed. On top of that, literally what's even the point of going to the future? Good or bad future, there's absolutely no benefit to it. It's a mixture of poor design and convoluted design.

There's more to a stage than just collision tiles you know. The time periods were an awesome experience. The themes were amazing and beautiful along with the music. That alone made it all worth it.

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