don't click here

Sonic Robo Blast 2 v2.2 Launches

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Shadow Hog, Mar 15, 2014.

  1. Willie

    Willie

    Each day the world turns Laugh 'til it all burns Member
    I must have been delusional when I wrote that. No matter what, I'm unable to go more than eight directions regardless of what I do. However, emulating a mouse allows me to have much more control over my speed which makes navigating the levels far easier. Still, it would be great if full analog control was implemented someday. A hybrid of both strafing controls and normal platforming movement would also be lovely, especially for those boss battles.
     
  2. Techokami

    Techokami

    For use only on NTSC Genesis systems Researcher
    1,373
    81
    28
    HoleNet!
    Sonic Worlds Next
    So when is the regular download going to be made available for people that aren't assed to install a torrent client? :v:
     
  3. Blivsey

    Blivsey

    Charismatic Sonicaholic Member
    Man, I didn't know so many people on Retro played this one. Maybe we should get a netgame together.

    I can confirm that waterfall is one hundred percent less ridiculous.
     
  4. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

    A "Community Enigma"? Oldbie
    1,467
    11
    18
    Well, you can say that, but it doesn't change the fact that you've made something that looks like a duck but only sort of quacks like one. What you are suggesting is less a fix and more of a workaround for what should be seen as a significant issue :v:

    WASD is "pro-mode" but not everyone wants that. I certainly don't!
     
  5. winterhell

    winterhell

    Member
    1,165
    7
    18
    Analogue control does not have much of a reason to mess with the networking code. For the direction you are probably using at least 3 bits(8 directions),so if you increase it to 8 bits you can have 256 degrees. Position wise, you can be at the same spot with 8 and with 256 directions, so that variable does not have to change.

    Movement wise it should be pretty straightforward, depending on how the engine is coded.
    Code (Text):
    1. pos.x+=cos(stigckAngle)*currentVelocity;
    2. pos.z+=sin(stickAngle)*currentVelocity;
     
  6. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

    A "Community Enigma"? Oldbie
    1,467
    11
    18
    Playing it now, some feedback:

    • It would be a lot nicer if the radius for touching a checkpoint was doubled or even tripled. It's entirely too easy to run past a checkpoint without hitting it and having to double back for it specifically. That's not fun at all.
    • Did the Green Flower Zone boss really need the second phase with the spike balls? The timing window for hitting him is ultra-specific now and in my opinion, way too complicated for the first boss of the game. Maybe drop it down from 4 to 2 or even 1.
    • Love the NiGHTS special stages; this was an idea I had for Sonic: The Fated Hour back in the day.
    • A general art direction tip: the floor should never be the same color as the walls. Even if the floor is just a darker/lighter version of the wall texture, it helps a lot differentiate them at a glance so distant geometry stands out more clearly. (THZ2 is SUPER guilty of this.)
    • Techno Hill Zone looks great now! But you go from Act 1, which is maybe 2 minutes long, to act 2, which took me almost ten minutes, and that seems a little ridiculous.
    • The whole "jump off the peak height of this piston to push the button and raise the water level" puzzle in THZ2 was a little obtuse. Maybe some rings to suggest what you have to do? Like an X right over the button, or a trail pointing down in to the muck, or something. It's such a weird, specific thing that I didn't expect it to work. (Instead, I was wondering if there was a button to signal Tails to airlift me out.)
    • The rounded pipes you encounter early in THZ were super cool, was a shame to see them go back to square block pipes later in the level (sometimes with texture alignment issues...)
    • Similarly, the pogo phase of the THZ boss moves a little too fast; it looks like he's ice skating a bit. Maybe have his forward movement pause until he leaves the ground?
    • The game just quit to desktop in the middle of Deep Sea Zone Act 1. (OpenGL, Windowed mode) I got crushed, restarted from a checkpoint near the first room with the bomb-dropping surface skimming robots. Kept going, fell in to the water in a section with a lot of Detons (?) after losing the magnet shield. Tails got hit by one, and the game immediately closed.
     
  7. Sappharad

    Sappharad

    Oldbie
    1,413
    70
    28
    Why are so many people mentioning WINE when there are native builds for Linux/OSX/Dreamcast available? What's missing?

    That being said, it doesn't look like Alam actually tested the self-contained Mac build of 2.1.1, because it throws an error as soon as you open it. I guess I need to grab the source and build it myself.
     
  8. Saidian

    Saidian

    Member
    744
    0
    16
    England
    Blast From The Fast (Fangame)
    Is there/will there be a PSP or Dreamcast 2.1 port? Not that I aint loving it on the PC anyway but it would give me a great excuse to dust the old hardware off
     
  9. Sappharad

    Sappharad

    Oldbie
    1,413
    70
    28
    I mentioned DC in the post right above yours:
    http://alam.srb2.org/SRB2/2.1.1-Final/DC/Release/
    The port appears to exist, but I'm not sure if it works or not because I don't think Alam tests them.
     
  10. Lilly

    Lilly

    Member
    2,418
    234
    43
    United States
    Shang Mu Architect
    Lots of people have been uploading it everywhere, here's one link if it still works : http://www.mediafire.com/download/6ft597fif85us33/SRB2-v210-Installer.exe

    Alam mentioned it on the forums too, I guess it just wasn't advertised.

    Heh, I've never once felt hindered by analog mode, so I don't see how either control scheme is superior to the other. It all depends on how you play the game, and with the way I get around in analog mode, that doesn't translate into the keyboard at all. I can crawla hop, land on streetlights and stop signs in Tortured Planet, and make whatever jump I want no problem with a controller.

    Oh God, Xpadder. :specialed:/> I loved it dearly before it stopped being freeware, but SRB2's analog mode is still 2x smoother than emulating mouse movement in Xpadder.
     
  11. Mystic

    Mystic

    Oldbie
    29
    0
    0
    Sonic Robo Blast 2
    Honestly, the issue is more that we've made something that CAN sort of quack like a duck and because of people's expectations, they set up the controls that way and find the controls heavily lacking. I do agree that the controller support could use some work, but playing the game in analog mode is like trying to play Super Mario 64 in an emulator with only a keyboard. Sure, you can do it, but it'll be painfully clear your controls are suboptimal. Analog mode is slippery and has a camera bad enough that we jokingly compare it to Sonic Adventure's camera. In retrospect I kinda wish analog never existed so people came in with a blank slate and we could sculpt people's understanding of the controls without expectations that it'll work like Sonic Adventure.

    SRB2 really is an entirely different animal and I don't consider using FPS controls to be "pro mode" as much as actually using an analog stick to play SM64 like it was designed for. You're welcome to play it with analog, but just remember that it's suboptimal when you encounter things that seem more difficult than they ought to be.

    This is fixed in the 2.1.1 patch posted earlier in the thread. Update your copy and that crash won't happen.

    The reason analog mode doesn't work in netplay at all is because the camera, and all the variables attached to the camera, are client-side. The server of the game does not have any knowledge of how you've chosen to display your view, which works fine for the normal control scheme because it doesn't care about the camera's location. Analog mode uses the camera's position to determine which direction your movement keys correspond to. Since the server doesn't know where your camera is positioned, it's impossible for the server to know which direction your inputs would correspond to. This is why analog doesn't work in netplay, and it's impossible to fix this without completely rewriting the netcode to transfer camera information.
     
  12. Tiller

    Tiller

    Member
    836
    0
    16
    HDK & World Runner
    How the hell do I get past that one part of Egg Rock where you have to roll under something on a moving platform. No matter if I tap rolling once I get under the ledge it shoots me off into the electric wall next to the emerdude and you get knockbacked into the pit? After that gravity room ate my lives this finally got me to waste my first continue. Then I realized I wasn't playing on a saved game so I gotta do it over again. :specialed:

    I played this before but had massive issues with graphical errors and inverted random colors, but running it in window has fixed those problems from the last time. Finally sitting down with it properly, and it is fun as all hell.
     
  13. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

    A "Community Enigma"? Oldbie
    1,467
    11
    18
    I think analog mode is absolutely fine. The camera sucks, but given the nature of the Doom engine it's not as though I find myself wishing I could look up or down often; levels do not seem to be built with the type of verticality that makes me wish I could see what was above me. SRB2 largely deals in flat planes, so levels get viewed as a series of "floors". Like 2nd floor, 1st floor, basement, etc. It would be better if I had more traditional stick-based camera controls, certainly, but I've been playing with analog mode exclusively since it was introduced and it's actually, seriously never been a problem for me.

    The opinions you hold about it are also probably hurting the appeal of the game. I say it every SAGE, but Sonic is a console game character, there are standards regarding those kinds of controls, and straying from them will just make people frustrated. It makes me frustrated. It's not just that people come in expecting Sonic Adventure, people come in expecting the entire, 20-year-old 3D platformer genre. Everyone comes in expecting a motorbike and you hand them a unicycle, saying "Trust me, it's more maneuverable."

    Gamepads on the PC are a thing now, because if you have bluetooth and any "modern" game console, then chances are you can tether a controller to your computer. It's no longer a niche you can just brush aside for your weird non-standardly functional solution. As somebody who's used analog mode all this time, trust me, SRB2 isn't that different of an animal outside of multiplayer (and maybe the eternally frustrating, high-specific EggRock Zone)

    Heck, there's games being sold on Steam now that only function if you have a controller; they absolutely will not take keyboard or mouse input whatsoever. Gotta get with the times.

    My mistake; I figured the torrent linked in the OP had everything.
     
  14. Lilly

    Lilly

    Member
    2,418
    234
    43
    United States
    Shang Mu Architect
    That's kinda the problem, virtually nothing is difficult to pull off with analog mode; (I can breeze through both Egg Rock acts easily with analog.) it all depends on your play style. Multiplayer is where I think analog would be more of a hindrance because of the nature of shooting and aiming. I do tons of running and jumping as any character but Sonic in single player, so I need proportional controls and the ability to rotate the camera; that allows me to see and observe everything about the platforms around me. People who get around by thoking and ridiculously well-timed jumps, on the other hand, won't have need for any of that.

    If analog never existed, I wouldn't have kept SRB2 after the first five minutes I spent fumbling around with the control settings. Non-analog felt slippery, slow turning like a tank, watching the character wobble unnaturally while strafing, and seeing the camera lag behind your every move, didn't feel too good. For all of SRB2's excellent presentation, coding, and music, I felt like I was playing a twitchy, clunky Doom mod that could have been scripted together without compiling modified builds of the engine. For some older players, it won't feel ancient to them, but it did for me.

    Given all that, I'd like to know what makes the analog camera so terrible. I can actually make SRB2's camera do what I want, instead of wrestling for dominance with it like in Sonic Adventure. The animations simply aren't timed properly with the player's movement, (Hard to pull off in a high speed platformer, I know.) like in the classic Sonic games, so of course it's slippery. The game has much bigger problems outside of keyboard/mouse versus analog that make both control schemes horrible in their own ways.

    tl;dr, you have no sense of traction regardless of your preferences, none at all, so you either deal with it, or screw it and go first-person. However, I've learned to put up with it because everything else about the game outshines that, and I think it speaks volumes for SRB2, honestly.
     
  15. Sappharad

    Sappharad

    Oldbie
    1,413
    70
    28
    Finally got around to playing it, now that I've built myself a working copy.

    I love the Jello in THZ, that is a pretty neat change. I don't think I actually finished 2.0.1, (don't remember anything after the desert zone) so I'm hoping I get around to finishing this one.
    Congratulations on the new release!
     
  16. Willie

    Willie

    Each day the world turns Laugh 'til it all burns Member
    Has anybody tried this code or made a code to improve the analog controls? I'm an idiot with coding, so I have no idea how to implement something like that.

    I really like the changes to the first boss. I feel like it makes it less repetitive and more interesting.

    SRB2's analog mode with the official controller support doesn't work as well for me as having it emulate a mouse. Are you able to go in more than eight directions?

    If the game never had analog mode, I don't think I would've ever gotten into the game, especially back in early 2003 where I never played an FPS in my life. Considering how controller support is pretty much the norm now for platformers on PC, any chance you guys might make improvements to it like going in more than 8 directions and a much better camera system? It's evident in this thread that there's definitely a demand for it. For the camera, I mostly use my DualShock 4's L2 and R2 buttons which is nowhere near as fast or sensitive compared to when I have XPadder emulate the mouse based camera with the default controls.
     
  17. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

    A "Community Enigma"? Oldbie
    1,467
    11
    18
    Yeah, but look at like, the first boss of Sonic 2. Or Sonic CD. First bosses don't usually need to be so complex or difficult.

    I spent several minutes trying to figure out the timing to get the last hit in on him and I couldn't find it; I got lucky and he just happened to fly in to me (from the sky, where I couldn't even reach him) when I was jumping trying to re-collect a lost ring.
     
  18. Willie

    Willie

    Each day the world turns Laugh 'til it all burns Member
    I never thought those boss battles were that great.

    My biggest problem with the boss was the slowness of the camera. If the camera could function a lot faster in analog mode, it would've helped a lot.
     
  19. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

    A "Community Enigma"? Oldbie
    1,467
    11
    18
    They aren't really meant to be great bosses, though. Not in the sense that they are epic, protracted battles for your life. First bosses are there to act as your introduction to the concept of bosses. To say, "here is an enemy that requires multiple hits in order to be defeated".

    Nobody remembers the first bottomless pit in 1-1 Super Mario Bros., but it's still just as important that it exists, y'know?
     
  20. Willie

    Willie

    Each day the world turns Laugh 'til it all burns Member
    I suppose, but I don't feel the boss is too complex as an introductory boss battle. First half has you dodging lasers and the second half has you dodging spike balls. You're doing something similar for each phase but there's enough of a difference to prevent the fight from feeling repetitive. It also introduces you to how boss battles tend to vary things up in the second half of a fight.