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Sonic for SegaCD

#31 User is offline Heran Bago 

Posted 04 December 2005 - 07:06 PM

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Stealth, on Dec 4 2005, 05:43 PM, said:

I don't know if Isolated Island uses a full 64 colors just for the level, but if it DOESN'T, I could probably combine these things. Otherwise, I could probably set them all up individually or in other combinations just as quickly

Isolated Island, as well as all other levels in Chaotix, originally use all four Genesis pallete lines.
By using "MARS" color for the sprites, they can make the levels even more colorfull. Well, if that's what they really wanted, they could make all the levels in "MARS" color... oh well.

#32 User is offline Varion Icaria 

Posted 04 December 2005 - 10:57 PM

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Heran_Bago, on Dec 4 2005, 04:06 PM, said:

Stealth, on Dec 4 2005, 05:43 PM, said:

I don't know if Isolated Island uses a full 64 colors just for the level, but if it DOESN'T, I could probably combine these things. Otherwise, I could probably set them all up individually or in other combinations just as quickly

Isolated Island, as well as all other levels in Chaotix, originally use all four Genesis pallete lines.
By using "MARS" color for the sprites, they can make the levels even more colorfull. Well, if that's what they really wanted, they could make all the levels in "MARS" color... oh well.

Is that only the feature of the 32X? or can it be done on both the Genesis seperately as well as the Sega CD?

#33 User is offline LOst 

Posted 09 December 2005 - 10:50 PM

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Heran_Bago, on Dec 5 2005, 03:06 AM, said:

Stealth, on Dec 4 2005, 05:43 PM, said:

I don't know if Isolated Island uses a full 64 colors just for the level, but if it DOESN'T, I could probably combine these things. Otherwise, I could probably set them all up individually or in other combinations just as quickly

Isolated Island, as well as all other levels in Chaotix, originally use all four Genesis pallete lines.
By using "MARS" color for the sprites, they can make the levels even more colorfull. Well, if that's what they really wanted, they could make all the levels in "MARS" color... oh well.

There are always reasons for what they have done. Back in the days they really used everything. Nowdays (GBA/DS), they are lazy using half performance in a bad way, and no compression.

#34 User is offline Heran Bago 

Posted 09 December 2005 - 11:04 PM

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LOst, on Dec 9 2005, 10:50 PM, said:

Heran_Bago, on Dec 5 2005, 03:06 AM, said:

Stealth, on Dec 4 2005, 05:43 PM, said:

I don't know if Isolated Island uses a full 64 colors just for the level, but if it DOESN'T, I could probably combine these things. Otherwise, I could probably set them all up individually or in other combinations just as quickly

Isolated Island, as well as all other levels in Chaotix, originally use all four Genesis pallete lines.
By using "MARS" color for the sprites, they can make the levels even more colorfull. Well, if that's what they really wanted, they could make all the levels in "MARS" color... oh well.

There are always reasons for what they have done. Back in the days they really used everything. Nowdays (GBA/DS), they are lazy using half performance in a bad way, and no compression.

I dunno. Chaotix was really a rushed job. They used so little MARS colors compared to what they could have done. Even with the size limit on thatcartridge, there's a lot more they could have added. Although I belive that the game had been so developed on the Genesis that by the time it was moved over to 32X, it already looked to good to pimp out the level colors. Like all later Sonic games, Chaotix has some fackin' awesome level art.

#35 User is offline Rika Chou 

Posted 09 December 2005 - 11:21 PM

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R. Solaris, on Dec 4 2005, 08:57 PM, said:

Heran_Bago, on Dec 4 2005, 04:06 PM, said:

Stealth, on Dec 4 2005, 05:43 PM, said:

I don't know if Isolated Island uses a full 64 colors just for the level, but if it DOESN'T, I could probably combine these things. Otherwise, I could probably set them all up individually or in other combinations just as quickly

Isolated Island, as well as all other levels in Chaotix, originally use all four Genesis pallete lines.
By using "MARS" color for the sprites, they can make the levels even more colorfull. Well, if that's what they really wanted, they could make all the levels in "MARS" color... oh well.

Is that only the feature of the 32X? or can it be done on both the Genesis seperately as well as the Sega CD?

I'm pretty sure it was only for the 32x.


If you look inside the 32x cartridge slot, you can see the word "MARS".

#36 User is offline Mask of Destiny 

Posted 11 December 2005 - 10:30 AM

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The 32X is actually pretty bad at 2D graphics because it has almost no hardware acceleration whatsoever (well it's bad given how fast the processors are, it's still not terrible). So doing the whole level on the 32X side might have been somewhat problematic, hard to say.

That said, there are small portions of the background that are drawn by the 32X instead of the Genesis VDP.

#37 User is offline Tweaker 

Posted 11 December 2005 - 04:05 PM

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The Sega CD is best for it, no doubt. I had a look at what Stealth is coming up with, and I must say... It's excellent. No doubt he can replicate something of that fashion.

#38 User is offline wocko1 

Posted 03 January 2006 - 10:36 PM

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Quote

I'm pretty sure it was only for the 32x.


I do recall seeing games that used both MegaCD and 32X hardware at the same time but I dunno if it would be easy to program the game to use both though as there were two (I think) games which used both 32X and MCD.


Although on the other hand, remember when Sonic CD was using FMV, it might not be possible to add FMV to Sonic 2 for MCD but anyway some one made a nice looking ending FMV for Sonic 2. http://www.deviantar...ation/22457911/

#39 User is offline ThunderPX 

Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:49 AM

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wocko1, on Jan 3 2006, 07:36 PM, said:

Quote

I'm pretty sure it was only for the 32x.


I do recall seeing games that used both MegaCD and 32X hardware at the same time but I dunno if it would be easy to program the game to use both though as there were two (I think) games which used both 32X and MCD.


Although on the other hand, remember when Sonic CD was using FMV, it might not be possible to add FMV to Sonic 2 for MCD but anyway some one made a nice looking ending FMV for Sonic 2. http://www.deviantar...ation/22457911/

I somehow doubt the SegaCD would be able to play that FMV, but I'm no hardware person. =P

#40 User is offline Quickman 

Posted 04 January 2006 - 08:13 AM

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If it were prerendered then it would just be a case of moving graphics data to the display buffer.

#41 User is offline wocko1 

Posted 04 January 2006 - 08:13 AM

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Quote

I somehow doubt the SegaCD would be able to play that FMV, but I'm no hardware person. =P


I guess your right mainly due to the fact that the FMV in the MegaCD version was supposed to have bits cut from it as the Mega Drive couldn't handle the entire video compared to the Sonic CD video in the PC version and Sonic Jam for the Saturn (even though SCD wasn't part of Jam, just that the intro/ending vids were).

It would work if it was for the Saturn but what's the point cause we got Sonic Jam (although without CDA) as well as the Saturn is supposed to be a pain in the arse to program for. And there is still no Saturn emulator that runs perfectly (e.g. Sonic Jam (J) runs like a chaffcutter when running any of the original Mega Drive games [S1, S2, S3, S&K S2K and S3K])

But anyway, it was just a suggestion.

BTW, would Hidden Palace Zone, Wood Zone or maybe Death Egg Zone Act 2 qualify? Mecha Flicky was a bit "strange", lol

Might mock up something for DEZ (level design, gfx) etc sometime.

#42 User is offline Stealth 

Posted 06 January 2006 - 09:23 PM

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Well, here it is. It's not what I wanted, but it will have to do since I can't waste any more time stumbling around in the dark.

This release doesn't work as intended, in that I have found one SegaCD and one Genesis problem that, as far as I can find, are not documented, and do not affect the game in emulators. The first could not be judged by running single files through a transfer cable, and the second, the only alternative, just fails on hardware. Those problems are described in the ReadMe, which I'll paste below. You may be able to play Sonic 1 as intended on hardware, however Sonic 2 definitely exhibits errors related to the problem described (no sound in levels, random crash). Emulator play seems unaffected, so if you're only interested in seeing the concept in "ideal" circumstances, or are only interested in the new gameplay mods (Included in the ReadMe), your experience will be unhindered. The only modifications that break on hardware are the ones intended to work around the RAM limitation of the SegaCD.

I make no claim that everything in this build actually does work correctly on hardware, nor do I claim that there are no other minor "glitches","issues" or unpolished aspects. In that respect, if I recieve any accusations/claims/reports of malfunction on hardware, or any details that I need not be concerned with during "proof-of-concept" development such as minor inconsistencies in displays or other issues that don't actually hinder normal gameplay, this will be the last you will see from me. It's not intended to be a fully polished, fully playable game, merely an experiment to prove/disprove the capability of the SegaCD to manage Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 in any capacity. At the moment, as far as Sonic 2 is concerned, I consider it "inconclusive".

I've spent too much time and gone through too much grief over this project, so this release is being made now, simply because I already made an announcement based on misleading experiences and information, and have already challenged someone who challenged the existance of this project to begin with. Now I'll be doing something else for a while.

Before downloading, please read and understand the above, and the ReadMe (who's region headers have been combined here):

Quote

          Sonic for MegaCD Proof-Of-Concept Build

The ISO packaged herein is for US Region SegaCD. There is also
a Europe Region version that is, at the time of this release,
available at http://stealth.shado...s.com/SMCDE.rar

The ISO packaged herein is for Europe Region SegaCD. There is
also a US Region version that is, at the time of this release,
available at http://stealth.shado...s.com/SMCDU.rar

************************************************************

Important:

Certain claims of functionality were written into this
document during the burning of a test CD, before the hardware
was found to have unexpected, unemulated, undocumented
"problems" that did not show up in previous tests reguarding
issues that WERE known to require special care. The first
version exploited one functionality to attain more RAM storage,
however, this exploit rendered the CD reader unresponsive. This
version was created to replace it, however, the method used for
Sonic 2 during level gameplay renders the z80 sound program
useless on real hardware, thus, no sound (and some crashes)
during level play. Unless there are undocumented setup steps to
allow the use of Genesis RAM to store sound data for the z80
program on actual hardware (This is a necessary step to ensure
that the z80, which needs frequent access to DAC samples and
sound effects, still has access even when SCD Memory access
rights are swapped between processors), the only other
alternative is to replace the z80 program with a setup more
similar to that in Sonic 1 (with a DAC handler and it's samples
both stored in Z80, while a 68k program handles FM and sound
effects, only during VBlank), which would would add slowdown,
and would require conversion of all music and sound effects, as
well as new programming to accommodate for new music/sound
events that were added for Sonic 2. Without using the methods
attempted herein, there is not enough space to store the
uncompressed player art along with all other data within
most fully-developed level programs for Sonic 2

These programs remain fully functional through emulation, so
the documentation is left in-tact, with the addition of this
notice. A release of this nature is being made only because
word had already been given based on the lack of knowledge of
these unforseeable circumstances, because Sonic 1 appears
to be functional, and because of the effort already expended,
including the additional game modifications featured herein.
Testing ceases at this time, and any other use of this project
is placed on hold, pending further information and time,
allowing other projects an opportunity to be developed

************************************************************

The programs featured on this ISO are proof-of-concept for
the original Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic the Hedgehog 2
running from MegaCD. Current features include:


Intro Level:

This is a small level area that uses gameplay for selecting
the player, game, and color mode. Player and color select
are controlled by re-appearing Monitors, and game select is
controlled by each of 4 springs. Two in the upper area select
Sonic the Hedgehog or Sonic the Hedgehog 2, or two below
select the test zone in either the Sonic 1 or Sonic 2 engine,
with the tunnel on the right selecting the Sonic 2 test zone
in 2P mode

Sonic the Hedgehog:

The Title Screen and complete Green Hill Zone from the
original Sonic the Hedgehog are available, featuring relevant
enhancements from "Knuckles in Sonic the Hedgehog", including
the playable Knuckles character, as well as a spindash and
Sonic 2 style motion handling for Sonic himself, and even a
playable Tails. Knuckles and Tails games may use one of two
color modes:

  Friendly color - New character colors are forced to match
                  the game palette (with attempted minimum
                  impact) so that no original art appears
                  modified

  Aggressive color - New palettes are loaded for the new
                    characters, displaying them with their
                    correct colors, though affecting other
                    sprites (with attempted minimum impact)

Sonic the Hedgehog 2:

The Title Screen and complete Emerald Hill Zone from the
original Sonic the Hedgehog 2 are available, featuring flight
for Tails, and a playable Knuckles. Sonic and Tails 1P and
2P modes are both available, though a tie-breaker is not

Test Level:

The test levels are built from the example output data from
SonED2, which are based on Shining Island from "Sonic the
Hedgehog: Project Mettrix". This is a very brief level for
both Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 engines showing functionality of
level layout and solidity/angles with functional loop.
These playable versions feature CD playback, using music
from the previously-mentioned Shining Island. For Sonic 2,
this level also represents a functional custom 2-player
level, which also shows a working combination of both CD
tracks and normal Sonic engine music (when an invincibility
item appears). The CD track, at the time of this release,
is available at http://stealth.shado...s.com/SMCDM.rar
and should be placed in the same folder as the ISO


All programming work are modifications, enhancements, and
adaptations of other Sonic game code, by Stealth
MStealthA @ aol.com
http://stealth.emulationzone.org

Based on reverse-engineering by Hivebrain/Stealth/drx
(Sonic 1) and Nemesis (Sonic 2), and partial personal
reverse-engineering of "Sonic 2 and Knuckles", Sonic 3,
and Sonic and Knuckles

Custom Levels created with SonED2, by Stealth

Music and Sound Effects from later games now appearing in
Sonic 1 ported by Tweaker

Some mappings were converted/built with LOst Library

US SegaCD boot information provided by Mask of Destiny

European MegaCD boot information provided by LOst

Original game design, programming, art, music, etc created
by Sonic Team and used without permission, but without
intent to harm Sonic Team or Sega, and without intent to
profit. New programming, content, and implementation remain
separate properties of their respective authors


I don't expect any positive feedback on the SegaCD nature of this project any more than I want negative, for the reasons described above. This is merely to explain the circumstances, prove the existance of the project, and display previews of other possible gameplay mods.

#43 User is offline Rika Chou 

Posted 06 January 2006 - 09:32 PM

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Absolutely amazing!!

This...
SonED2...
KiS1....


I do declare! You are a God!


Wow! You even have your test level in 2P mode! You rock!
This post has been edited by Rika Chou: 06 January 2006 - 10:10 PM

#44 User is offline jman2050 

Posted 06 January 2006 - 09:44 PM

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I'm not gonna complain. And neither should any of you.

I love you for this :D

EDIT - Ha, I just realized. In the process Stealth made a Tails in Sonic 1 hack that's better than drx's :P (no offense to drx of course)
This post has been edited by jman2050: 06 January 2006 - 09:49 PM

#45 User is offline Mystical Ninja 

Posted 06 January 2006 - 10:26 PM

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Wow, that was pretty good. I like how you added that field-type level, and had the "Walkin'" theme song from Sonic Crackers and Knuckles' Chaotix. By the way, I'd declare you even MORE godly if you were to port Knuckles' Chaotix to the Sega CD. :P

Nah, I'm kidding.

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