[Sik]

winterhell, on 30 December 2011 - 05:47 AM, said:

About the XP debate, if you don't remember 10 years ago the same thing was XP versus 98. How The 98 was better, could run Norton Antivirus '83 and 4 bit applications, and had integrated DOS. Sure, there are still people that will stay with XP due to lack of drivers for TV tuners and scanners, but the mass is moving on.

The big issue with XP was that a lot of DOS programs were breaking like crazy, and they weren't exactly old programs. There were DOS games as late as 1999, maybe even 2000. So no, the comparison doesn't stand.

Also I didn't check the game and I have no plans to, but I assume that then S3HD will be 64-bit only?

PS: to all those who think some of the criticism was harsh, take mine: the only way I'm gonna tolerate a Sonic 3 remake is if it's done the same way as Generations and must look like the most awesome game ever possible. No exception.

[winterhell]

The game will stay 32-bit compatible as it works fine on Pentium 4 and the final version will likely not requre more than 512 MB of ram.
As for the dependencies, I'll make a silent installer.

[ICEknight]

I'm using XP and I haven't had any problems with this.

[DNLeal]

So I gave this a shot not too long ago. Despite what everyone has said with the artwork, the bugs, the style, I'm probably not gonna touch those subjects critically and furthermore will not even compare it to S2HD, so moving on.

First of all: I'm ok with this demo, good job. I like that there's something we can see, try, critique, etc. You guys did something and you should really just keep it up. Right now, as many have said before, your priority is to research more, first in the gameplay aspect and then focus in the graphics department by looking and trying more options.

As for more of personal opinion, once you reach the graphics side, I would really not like to see 3D models reach this project and I suggest to explore more in the 2D just yet before grabbing the classic sonic gens model. For now don't draw just 1 Sonic and ask us what we think of it just yet, hell, it would be great if you could draw 40 Sonics on one single PSD file colored and drawn in different styles (specially if more on your team can draw). The key here is to look for options and cross out what cannot be done and what does work.

All in all, you guys got something, and just aim to complete things with what you have, be it a S3HD project or something else.

This post has been edited by DNLeal: 30 December 2011 - 01:16 PM

[Conan Kudo]

Walnut, on 29 December 2011 - 01:15 PM, said:

XNA's not that difficult to port, it just does a lot of the lower level stuff for you. For the most part you could take the logic and move it over to whatever you want without too many issues... You'd just do more coding that XNA saved you from doing in the first place. Also, I'm not totally sure why you'd harp on portability and bloat and then suggest SDL over OpenGL but that could be my own biases

I suggested SDL because SDL has the ability to use software rendering or OpenGL. And SDL is a very light library that abstracts away the low level crap like input management while still letting you use whatever you want to supplement it. And it is portable. It works on game consoles, Linux, Windows, Mac OS X, smartphones, tablets, etc. There's very few modern platforms that SDL doesn't work on. If you don't like SDL, then you can use the (slightly heavier but more capable) Allegro 5 library.

[Mr. Mash]

Wow, good luck redoing the whole damn game.
You're probably already aware of any faults, so I won't bother picking at them. One thing I don't like though is the style of the art, The gradients and soft brushes don't describe any of the forms properly. And the differences between detailed/textured areas and flat coloured areas is a bit uncomfortable.

[Perfect Chaos Zero]

Irixion, on 29 December 2011 - 04:26 PM, said:

XP is dead, has been for a long time.

winterhell, on 29 December 2011 - 01:30 PM, said:

nobody is using XP

Your abrasive attitude towards an entire user base that is clearly much larger than you think is not a good way to win you any fans.

BlazeHedgehog, on 30 December 2011 - 01:13 AM, said:

Well screw you, too. I don't appreciate being locked out in the cold just because you think the operating system I'm unfortunately tethered to is "dead".

Blaze's statement is a perfect example. If you'd been like, "Sorry guys, we just couldn't work in XP so and so", that'd be one thing, but instead you act like a jerk about it. There's tons of XP users out there and essentially implying, "Your shit is dead so no one gives a fuck about you" doesn't fill ANYONE with warm fuzzy feelings, XP user or not. Being presumptuous and making arrogant blanket statement aren't exactly polite either. Try to be a bit more personable and community savvy dude. Instead of promoting anything, you're just making yourself look like a jackass.

Now don't get me wrong here good sirs, I'm not trying to call you a jack ass, offend, call you names or shit in your picnic basket. I'm just trying to call your attention to the fact that you're giving off some serious negative vibes and it's reflecting very poorly on you. You have the power to fix that, very easily. I recommend you do so, because I think it would be really awesome if you did that. I hope you think about that, chill out and have a nice day.

This post has been edited by Perfect Chaos Zero: 31 December 2011 - 04:51 AM

[winterhell]

As I mentioned earlier, our options are either drop Windows XP AND the dependencies, or still support XP and have silent installation for .net and XNA.
Most people here raged about the dependencies so what should we choose ?

[Namo]

Pretty sure its more important to support as many operating systems as possible. Additionally you could have a setup program and have the .net and XNA things install alongside the main program; a lot of installers take this route these days anyway.

[BlazeHedgehog]

winterhell, on 31 December 2011 - 05:45 AM, said:

As I mentioned earlier, our options are either drop Windows XP AND the dependencies, or still support XP and have silent installation for .net and XNA.
Most people here raged about the dependencies so what should we choose ?

9 out of 10 games I install on Steam nowadays have to sit there and check to make sure I have the latest .NET libraries and Visual C++ 2005 and Direct X and what-the-fuck-ever before booting up the first time.

Let those whining about dependencies suck it up. They probably already have that stuff without even realizing it.

This post has been edited by BlazeHedgehog: 31 December 2011 - 07:55 AM

[Falk]

BlazeHedgehog, on 31 December 2011 - 07:51 AM, said:

winterhell, on 31 December 2011 - 05:45 AM, said:

As I mentioned earlier, our options are either drop Windows XP AND the dependencies, or still support XP and have silent installation for .net and XNA.
Most people here raged about the dependencies so what should we choose ?

9 out of 10 games I install on Steam nowadays have to sit there and check to make sure I have the latest .NET libraries and Visual C++ 2005 and Direct X and what-the-fuck-ever before booting up the first time.

Let those whining about dependencies suck it up. They probably already have that stuff without even realizing it.

See, you're missing the point just like winterhell did. What you said IS the big difference; it's packaged in. People aren't whining about dependencies. They're whining about having to, at least in the case of the OP/pre-demo release, having to download it. And no, I did not have net 4.0 (2.0, yes) installed. Again, it goes right back to the whole Origin example. Do people want to play BF3 enough to suck it up and put up with Origin? Yeah, obviously as statistics show.

People will bitch about having to start joy2key to have quick-and-dirty controller input. This is no different. And it's all about minimizing the entry barrier when you want to get your project out there.

[Conan Kudo]

winterhell, on 31 December 2011 - 05:45 AM, said:

As I mentioned earlier, our options are either drop Windows XP AND the dependencies, or still support XP and have silent installation for .net and XNA.
Most people here raged about the dependencies so what should we choose ?

You can use SDL+OpenGL+OpenAL or Allegro 5 with C# projects and port that way. C# as a language is cross platform, the frameworks most people use are usually not. Mono offers a C++ to C# bridging system that automatically bridges C++ library APIs into nice C# ones called CXXI. And you can build CXXI to run on .NET Framework instead of Mono. However, Mono does also run on Windows, and you are allowed to bundle individual components of Mono that you need in an installer as opposed to installing a whole runtime environment that someone may not want to have.

You could open source development and have the vast number of C/C++/C# developers on Retro and other communities come pitch in to develop an engine that works very well on multiple platforms. I personally prefer to game on Linux rather than Windows or Mac OS X, so the project in its current state is locked out to me. Again, if it only required C++ (or C#) and Allegro, I could run it on Linux. But the .NET 4.0 Framework and XNA are not portable.

EDIT: I've prepared a complete build of Allegro 5.0.5 using MinGW with all possible features for it enabled. Only DUMB and FLAC are statically linked since dynamic linking for those doesn't come out right on Windows (sometimes I get garbage DLLs because they haven't been updated for newer compilers). Anyway, I've made it available here. It includes DLLs, header files, linker libraries, and API documentation in HTML form. An online version is available, too. This build supports Direct3D 9 and OpenGL (version dependent on graphics driver on Windows).

This post has been edited by Conan Kudo: 31 December 2011 - 03:22 PM

[Miles Prower]

winterhell, on 31 December 2011 - 05:45 AM, said:

As I mentioned earlier, our options are either drop Windows XP AND the dependencies, or still support XP and have silent installation for .net and XNA.
Most people here raged about the dependencies so what should we choose ?

Go Linux.

If it can runs on Linux, it will run on pretty much everything else (well, maybe not Solaris or BSD or Hurd, mind you).
Moreover, people will less likely be "tethered to (the previous version of their operating system)" since pretty much every computer, no matter how old or how weird the hardware running it is, can handle any core Linux upgrade.

This post has been edited by Miles Prower: 05 January 2012 - 08:05 PM

[Relick]

Not much has been posted about this recently, and to be fair nothing much has been done our side either. We really need more artists, mainly:

• Background Artist
  
• Foreground Artist
  
• Animating Artist
  
• 3D Modeller + Animator?

If it just looks like I'm advertising, I'm gonna say that it's you guys that want a good looking game, and currently our talent is not up to par to make an awesome game in a reasonable time (As you pointed out yourselves).

This post has been edited by Relick: 21 January 2012 - 04:59 AM

[Kharen]

I saw the pictures and like the art style you have going, so I just had to ask. What is the 3D Modeler for?