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Sonic Forces

#3361 User is offline Laughingcow 

Posted 09 August 2017 - 12:29 AM

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View PostUpCDownCLeftCRightC, on 08 August 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

View PostSir_mihael, on 07 August 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

I've heard Iizuka is fantastic at dodging questions and giving non-answers, so this doesn't surprise me in the least that he's passed on his arts.

From one Summer of Sonic in the UK - (2011)
Question: "What was the decision to make Espio a Ninja in Sonic Heroes?" (hoping for some cool behind the scenes answer into the design process)

Iizuka: "Well when we created Sonic Heroes, we wanted an important balance between Speed, Flight and Power. This was so that players could work together to complete the game using all three characters. Team Chaotix were important in this regard but we hope players had fun with this and please look forward to Sonic Generations!"

Okay, this might be exaggerated a tad, but it was important to take away that he didn't actually answer the questions at all and just sort of vaguely summarized the gameplay of Sonic Heroes..


He did this to me when I met him earlier this year and asked him about translating the classic gameplay into 3D (oh, selfish me).

I thought it could be partially because he's not fluent in English but still, the guy has bullet-time level question reflexes. Like trying to tackle an Adrian Peterson covered in oil, with banana peels for shoes.

While I've never met Takashi Iizuka, I remember something that always stuck from wayback when Nights: Journey of Dreams was released. It was an interview with Edge magazine where someone asked him about his games not appealing to critics or hardcore gamers.

Edge magazine: You've made games at the US studio that have sold very well, but haven't been well received by critics or hardcore fans. Why do you think that is?

Takashi Iizuka: I felt that if I kept developing Sonic Adventure sequels, only core gamers would pick them up. I wanted to develop Sonic for more general users as well, so that's why I changed the name each time. With Nights: Journey of Dreams, we didn't call it Nights 2 because I wanted to create it for a mass market, not necessarily for fanatics who've waited 11 years. To make it appeal to that market, I needed to introduce the story from the beginning. There's still the original gameplay the hardcore loves, but we've combined it with things that kids love – like rollercoasters, or simple action-platforming with the children.

Here's a wayback machine link to the interview.
https://web.archive....ights-watchman/

I'm reminded why I stopped buying Sonic games after Sonic Heroes (which I thought was an okay game honestly). Iizuka can say some of the strangest things at times but this quote, I believe was him telling the truth. The irony being that what the "fanatics" want has more appeal than his "simple action-platforming".

While on that note, thank Coliworks for Cloudbuilt and Super Cloudbuilt.
This post has been edited by Laughingcow: 09 August 2017 - 12:30 AM

#3362 User is offline Hitlersaurus Christ 

Posted 09 August 2017 - 01:39 AM

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Japanese developers in particular tend to give excuses and non-answers in interviews, perhaps because interviews in Japan tend to be scripted or pre-prepared. Iizuka is one of the biggest offenders, but every once in a while he drops something genuine like that.
It's funny that that interview is about his views on franchise fanatics ("Mania" in Japanese) because it's exactly his reasoning behind Sonic Mania.

#3363 User is offline Casshern 

Posted 09 August 2017 - 02:28 AM

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I feel like it's definitely a Japanese culture thing, but not because of scripted interviews but because they tend to not care about the same thing we do in the West.

For example, see Toriyama with DBZ or Araki with JoJo.

They either don't care about canon questions or inconsistencies, forget stuff or give non-answers.

They also don't let canon stop them for telling their stories. So what if Roshi/eclipse cannon destroyed the moon, cause Kami brought it back somehow/you're seeing the other side of the moon now.

Saying that, he's a cool dude to talk to. I had the pleasure to hang out with him during a video game live concert and some of the Sonic Boom events (2012 and '14.)

He was definitely interested that I lived in Mexico and talked to me a little about Sonic Team's trip to Mexico/South America.Even though the conversation between him and me consisted of broken English and Japanese we were able to understand each other.

I would say he closes up a bit when a fan comes and asks him a question like what was the purpose of the ring placement at the end of Emerald Coast or why Knuckles doesn't seem to acknowledge the Chaotix in Heroes.

-----------------------

Back to Sonic Forces though. I got to try the game at SDCC. From that demo, I'm not going to call the game good. But I'm also not going to call the game bad either.

I can definitely see critics giving this game low scores because of the OC though. The concept is good, but I wasn't feeling the gameplay. The potential is there though.

#3364 User is offline UpCDownCLeftCRightC 

Posted 09 August 2017 - 09:40 AM

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View PostCasshern, on 09 August 2017 - 02:28 AM, said:

I feel like it's definitely a Japanese culture thing, but not because of scripted interviews but because they tend to not care about the same thing we do in the West.

For example, see Toriyama with DBZ or Araki with JoJo.

They either don't care about canon questions or inconsistencies, forget stuff or give non-answers.

They also don't let canon stop them for telling their stories. So what if Roshi/eclipse cannon destroyed the moon, cause Kami brought it back somehow/you're seeing the other side of the moon now.

Saying that, he's a cool dude to talk to. I had the pleasure to hang out with him during a video game live concert and some of the Sonic Boom events (2012 and '14.)

He was definitely interested that I lived in Mexico and talked to me a little about Sonic Team's trip to Mexico/South America.Even though the conversation between him and me consisted of broken English and Japanese we were able to understand each other.

I would say he closes up a bit when a fan comes and asks him a question like what was the purpose of the ring placement at the end of Emerald Coast or why Knuckles doesn't seem to acknowledge the Chaotix in Heroes.

-----------------------

Back to Sonic Forces though. I got to try the game at SDCC. From that demo, I'm not going to call the game good. But I'm also not going to call the game bad either.

I can definitely see critics giving this game low scores because of the OC though. The concept is good, but I wasn't feeling the gameplay. The potential is there though.


Pretty enlightening on Iizuka's character. He definitely seems like a good guy at the end of the day, though I didn't speak with him as long as you did. Its ironic how much Sonic fans complain that he doesn't listen to their demands because if there's one thing I've noticed about his leadership at Sonic Team, its that he and his team listens too much...but only to the various surface complaints and memes, without taking the time to understand problems fundamentally. Its long been my opinion that he should perhaps listen less to specific fan outcries and do some deep studying/troubleshooting/planning from the team's own vision, kind of like Whitehead and co do...not to start drawing comparisons...


Also the bolded has been my prediction about Forces ever since the first gameplay trailer was released. It looks like more of the same boost style, so not 'bad'. But not a noticeable improvement either and also a bit unfocused. So no, not a day one purchase, but if some flashy Modern Sonic gameplay trailers drop with interesting new levels, I may consider the game for a reduced price at a later date.

(I still believe Sonic needs a mini-reboot in 3D but that's another subject)
This post has been edited by UpCDownCLeftCRightC: 09 August 2017 - 09:42 AM

#3365 User is offline Casshern 

Posted 09 August 2017 - 03:05 PM

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View PostUpCDownCLeftCRightC, on 09 August 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

Also the bolded has been my prediction about Forces ever since the first gameplay trailer was released. It looks like more of the same boost style, so not 'bad'. But not a noticeable improvement either and also a bit unfocused. So no, not a day one purchase, but if some flashy Modern Sonic gameplay trailers drop with interesting new levels, I may consider the game for a reduced price at a later date.

(I still believe Sonic needs a mini-reboot in 3D but that's another subject)


Going into more detail and a little bit of a rant.

When Sonic Generations came out, I loved it. Still do to this day.

I really didn't mind Classic Sonic didn't play exactly like his Genesis counterpart because his levels were fun. Surprisingly, Modern Sonic stole the show because his levels were even more fun to me.

And it felt like a game Sonic Team had fun making like they used to back in the day with Sonic 1 all the way to SA2.

I really don't get that feeling from this game. And in fact Mania seems like the game the developers had fun doing.

Remember when everyone was asking for a Generations 2 around 2012-13? That was the window for this game. Everyone and their grandmothers would've ate this game up during that time.

And I wished the tables were turned where Lost World would've gotten the 4 years of development cause till day I still say that gameplay had potential to be better.

Anyways,from the demo, if you liked Generations then Modern & Classic Sonic are there for you. They feel less tank heavy and easier to control.

Classic still doesn't play exactly like his Genesis self. Like in Mania, I forgot the drop dash was there so I didn't use it.

Modern definitely feels more like the Colors version. Though I forgot to check out how his drift worked.

The OC, at least to me, feels like a neutered Modern Sonic. It also felt like Sonic Team's version of the Rise of Lyric gameplay. Obviously less combat, more speed and weapon based.

The platforming is definitely there though. The level seemed more intricate than the other 2.

At first I thought the enemies were going to be more challenging with the OC. But the fire gun was basically the boost, except you don't go faster.

I guess how much fun and challenge you want is going to depend on the gadgets you have.

Don't see myself enjoying the OC gameplay too much though.

Like I said in the previous post. As of now, the game is not good or bad, just there.

I do want to be surprised though, so let's see what else they show.

#3366 User is offline Jason 

Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:08 AM

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God damn, Arin. I don't know if he's ironically hyped for Forces anymore.

#3367 User is offline HEDGESMFG 

Posted 17 August 2017 - 03:25 PM

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I...

Why!?

Is... modern Sonic corrupting his views? Is he secretly becoming a reluctant fanboy?

(I mean, his theme is edgy in all the memeworthy ways yes, but that doesn't mean you need to do a serious cover of it.)
This post has been edited by HEDGESMFG: 17 August 2017 - 03:26 PM

#3368 User is offline Shaddy the guy 

Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:12 PM

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Or y'know, it's for fun.

Personally I'd have preferred he stay away from the series in general, but if it just ends up becoming "Arin likes Sonic" I guess that's one way to improve things.

Aaaaanyway, Forces has a section on sonicthehedgehog.com now. Nothing we haven't seen before, other than the full renders of the villain cast (minus Zavok and Chaos).
They'd make decent wallpapers, actually.

SSMB has chosen to latch onto the "run across iconic zones" line for it's weekly shitshow of Forces posts, too. It's just weird that there's any surprise if you ask me, considering we knew levels were returning from other games and have already seen one of them, but whatever.
This post has been edited by Shaddy the guy: 17 August 2017 - 11:12 PM

#3369 User is offline Nicky Ali 

Posted Yesterday, 06:04 AM

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View PostShaddy the guy, on 17 August 2017 - 11:12 PM, said:

Aaaaanyway, Forces has a section on sonicthehedgehog.com now. Nothing we haven't seen before, other than the full renders of the villain cast (minus Zavok and Chaos).
They'd make decent wallpapers, actually.


Posted Image

Damn, Metal Sonic is so cool. Can he just be in every game please

He's kind of like the Sonic equivalent of Bowser Jr. when you think about it.
This post has been edited by Nicky Ali: Yesterday, 06:13 AM

#3370 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted Yesterday, 06:06 AM

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For the most part he has been since around 2011. I'm ok with that though, Eggman could use a number 2. He's a much better number 2 than Bowser Jr. though. Ugh what an awful character
This post has been edited by Dark Sonic: Yesterday, 10:13 AM

#3371 User is offline Pengi 

Posted Yesterday, 02:35 PM

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View PostAdamis, on 07 August 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

Wasn't he already training to be a ninja in Chaotix ?


Not that I'm aware of. The ninja angle seems to have been new to Sonic Heroes.

You might be thinking of the fact that Chaotix established in as a private detective, which is something that did carry over to Sonic Heroes.

http://www.sonic-jam...:md-chaotix-cp1

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