[Greg the Cat]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 03 March 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

There's been this thing I've noticed about you specifically frequently (for a year's time approx.) and a few others here. At any opportunity, if the negativity is getting so astounding (as you say), you will take the chances you get to defend the developer and try to induce some sappy "they're trying really hard" vibe and get us sympathetic with them. You seem to forget that they're a company and that they're selling a product. I don't know what the hell it is about Sonic's loyalest fans, but they act as if every game is a gift and that we should be a hell of a lot more humbled and thankful that the franchise is still going. And this is disregarding even if said defender knows that Sonic had over a decade of abysmal to average at best games (and really, that especial kind of attitude irks me).

Try to look at it from this perspective that they have teams that are usually the same size (this is speaking on the fangames that have relative staffs of an average 10-12 members) or larger than the regular fangame staff here on Retro. Hell, two guys that were being payed nothing whatsoever for their effort made an excellent four level set of remixes that is still far better than what Dimps is doing on Sonic 4, gameplay-wise. The problem is that the company is not devoted to fixing these problems if their game is still profitable. And honestly, with the design of Sonic 4: Episode 1, who didn't want them to completely overhaul the game? It's not our fault if the gaming journalism's finest critics seem to have lulled Sega into the belief that just because it's a 2D Sonic game that it's good.

It especially doesn't make too much sense for you to try defend a game that's going to have levels that are even more linear than the first episode's. Absolutely everything that you can see that we've gotten from the convention indicates levels that push you in mostly one general direction. But, hey! This negativity's just too much for the poor guys being payed tens of thousands of dollars to put out an inferior product when their own fanbase can (and does) develop far better titles (however rarely, even if marred in the horizon with all the others)! For all we know, Dimps's development teams are probably sick of developing Sonic games and it's apparent that they're only going to give half a damn over it instead of having Sega take the project off to a different team with more enthusiasm and interest and passion to back the project.

Your logic is invalid. Thanks for playing.

This post has been edited by Greg the Cat: 03 March 2012 - 10:54 AM

[SpeedStarTMQ]

In the past year, I've been playing Sonic slightly less. I've have more time away from this community to step back and take a good enough look and have time to sit and play through other franchises. What I've come to notice about the Sonic community in part is that people heavily 'in to' Sonic seem to get too involved with the way the games are (currently) being developed, instead of focusing on actually appreciating them as playable games. I joined this community to study the games but there really has to be a good balance, and stating things along the lines of 'It's not going to be a super game' before even playing it is just silly.

I can see why people stated it about Ep I because it was genuinely flawed even beyond game play changes, but people seem to be jumping on this game now purely because it's related to Ep I and has to be one something totallt different.

Feel free to look through my previous posts. I'll be the first to slag off a shitty Sonic game, but honestly I think that we should all step back for a minute and see the bigger picture. Instead of, for example, negatively pointing out that the soundfont they're using isn't an exact MegaDrive replica still.

This post has been edited by SpeedStarTMQ: 03 March 2012 - 12:19 PM

[steveswede]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 03 March 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

It's never going to be a MegaDrive game, and it's never going to sound or look or even physically feel exactly like the originals

Can you stop this please why do you keep defending games that are mediocre at best. A game sequel based on an old successful formula should be better than past games why can't you understand that the originals are not on this impossible high that can never be reached again. Never going to be a Megadrive game again do I need to remind you of the amazing work Taxman has done by remaking Sonic CD from scratch that even surpasses the original Mega CD version. I really hope that the originals get done in the retro engine just so I can silence all this nonsense talk that some Sonic loyalists seem to think that faithful classic gameplay is impossible to recreate. DIMPS need to be sacked there is far better talent out there that can do the job that classic fans really want so stop defending DIMPS as if we should be greatful for their shoddy work.

This post has been edited by steveswede: 03 March 2012 - 01:06 PM

[dsrb]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 03 March 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

Feel free to look through my previous posts. I'll be the first to slag off a shitty Sonic game, but honestly I think that we should all step back for a minute and see the bigger picture. Instead of, for example, negatively pointing out that the soundfont they're using isn't an exact MegaDrive replica still.

Oh, hello!

So, one shouldn't point out what should be inexcusably lazy and half-assed ways of doing things because 'it could be worse'?

Duly noted.

On that specific topic, I already explained my reasoning. But hey, why not elaborate? I don't expect, or even want, them to use MD-style instruments – but if they're going to, they should do it properly, rather than using a hack-job solution such as a sample-set. Besides, are we just flapping our gums here about something for which not a single citation has been provided? Maybe – but some of us wouldn't put it past this team to do this the silly way.

[Namo]

What I don't get is, if it's a Sonic game and it's fun, why does it matter whether or not it's like the classics?

I didn't like episode 1, I'll say that right now. But not because of the fact that it had weird physics, or plastic-looking graphics, or bad music. It just wasn't fun. I wouldn't care about the stupid physics and graphics and all that other crap if the game was just fun, but it wasn't.

This post has been edited by Namo: 03 March 2012 - 12:51 PM

[Sparks]

Namo, on 03 March 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

What I don't get is, if it's a Sonic game and it's fun, why does it matter whether or not it's like the classics?

Because it's a direct sequel to the classics...?

SpeedStarTMQ, on 03 March 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

It's never going to be a MegaDrive game, and it's never going to sound or look or even physically feel exactly like the originals

In theory, it could.

[Namo]

So if a hypothetical Sonic The Hedgehog 5 was the best Sonic game to come out since Generations, but it wasn't like the classics, you guys would still dislike it?

[LordOfSquad]

Namo, on 03 March 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

So if a hypothetical Sonic The Hedgehog 5 was the best Sonic game to come out since Generations, but it wasn't like the classics, you guys would still dislike it?

I'd just dislike the fact that it's a wolf in sheep's clothing, so to speak.

[steveswede]

Namo, on 03 March 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

So if a hypothetical Sonic The Hedgehog 5 was the best Sonic game to come out since Generations, but it wasn't like the classics, you guys would still dislike it?

No but we would still say that it shouldn't have been called Sonic 5 and that is because it is established that a Sonic the Hedgehog game with a number right after it is specific type of platformer.

EDIT:

In before someone says that Sonic & Knuckles doesn't have a number. Well why wasn't it called Sonic 4 and why did you need Sonic 3 to lock on to play the full Sonic 3 game.

This post has been edited by steveswede: 03 March 2012 - 01:19 PM

[SpeedStarTMQ]

steveswede, on 03 March 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

SpeedStarTMQ, on 03 March 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

It's never going to be a MegaDrive game, and it's never going to sound or look or even physically feel exactly like the originals

Can you stop this please why do you keep defending games that are mediocre at best. A game squeal based on an old successful formula should be better than past games why can't you understand that the originals are not on this impossible high that can never be reached again. Never going to be a Megadrive game again do I need to remind you of the amazing work Taxman has done by remaking Sonic CD from scratch that even surpasses the original Mega CD version. I really hope that the originals get done in the retro engine just so I can silent all this nonsense talk that some Sonic loyalists seem to think that faithful classic gameplay is impossible to recreate. DIMPS need to be sacked there is far better talent out there that can do the job that classic fans really want so stop defending DIMPS as if we should be greatful for their shoddy work.

Seriously, what are you on about? When did mention anything that you just said? I didn't mention that the original games can't be beaten at all, though I actually think they can't, because they're 2 decades old, still impressive and have aged incredibly well and are the reason we're all here. I'm not saying Sonic 4 Episode Anything is ever going to come close to the originals, because this game started on a low and is still trying to get to where it wants to be.

However, over-analysing them and making it out that everything it does is negative because it's not how 'you' imagined it isn't the way to go. I didn't imagine it this way either. In fact, I had a very specific image of what Sonic 4 would have been when they announced it- but I was wrong. Therefore, I don't bang on about it.

This post has been edited by SpeedStarTMQ: 03 March 2012 - 01:30 PM

[MastaSys]

Oh please, now that's just being closed-minded.

If a Sonic 5 came out, and it's a good game, you know fun and with decent effort put into it (you know something that Sonic 4 hardly have, yes 4-2 looks better than 4-1, but as it looks now, it's like giving a C- to someone that had an D or E, I'm not going to be super-happy about that.) yes it would be worthy of my money and time.

It's not like a numbered series is limited to a specific style, there are good series like that out there, unfortually Sonic isn't it at the moment, regarding these numered ones.

[Sparks]

Namo, on 03 March 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

So if a hypothetical Sonic The Hedgehog 5 was the best Sonic game to come out since Generations, but it wasn't like the classics, you guys would still dislike it?

Well a lot of people liked Modern Sonics gameplay in Generations, so I don't get what you're saying.

[dsrb]

Namo, on 03 March 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

What I don't get is, if it's a Sonic game and it's fun, why does it matter whether or not it's like the classics?

I didn't like episode 1, I'll say that right now. But not because of the fact that it had weird physics, or plastic-looking graphics, or bad music. It just wasn't fun. I wouldn't care about the stupid physics and graphics and all that other crap if the game was just fun, but it wasn't.

Speaking for myself, it doesn't have to be just like them. A balance between old and new (if not necessarily those new) ideas would be great. The key point is that it has to be similar enough, although I concede that many people here are probably living in the past way too much by expecting similarity to an excessive/unrealistic degree.

You could just extend this earlier sentiment of mine to every aspect of the game:

dsrb, on 03 March 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

I don't expect, or even want, them to use MD-style instruments – but if they're going to, they should do it properly

Also what Mastasys said, sorta.

[ICEknight]

Namo, on 03 March 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

What I don't get is, if it's a Sonic game and it's fun, why does it matter whether or not it's like the classics?

...We still don't even know if it's fun.

[Namo]

dsrb, on 03 March 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

... although I concede that many people here are probably living in the past way too much by expecting similarity to an excessive/unrealistic degree.

Those people are who I directed my question at, really. And I share most of your points on what a "true" sequel to the classics would be. However, if we were to get a game that was basically the modern Sonic portion of Generations that was called "Sonic the Hedgehog 5" I'd be okay with it. And as long as it's fun, the rest of you should be too, even if it's not 'living up' to the name.

I'm not really 'saying' anything with my question that isn't written there word for word though I probably should have used different wording. But I was basically wondering if (most of) you guys actually will be displeased with any numbered "Sonic the Hedgehog" game that isn't like the classics 1-for-1.

Yes, I understand it's called Sonic the Hedgehog 4 and is a sequel to Sonic 3, which is a classic game. And I'm not saying that it's unrealistic to expect Classic physics. But, really, is classic physics really important as long as the game is fun? I think I pretty much know the answer most of you will give on that one. EDIT: Or maybe I don't know the answer you guys will give because you've all surprised me before.

This post has been edited by Namo: 03 March 2012 - 01:52 PM