[Hayate]

May belong in the SGD forum, but still it's to do with hacking so meh.

Anyway, I wonder why there are 400 (hex) 16x16 tiles. When editing tiles with SonED - let's take for example Chemical Plant Zone, what I find to be the most space-using zone in Sonic 2 (as far as graphics is concerned), I always see that even though there's as many 8 and 128 tiles used as possible, the 16s are only around 1/2 to 2/3 full. It's completely pointless having that many when to use any more you would - most times - need either to have extra 128s or extra 8s.

Also, Sonic Team seem to be VERY lazy and untidy while making Sonic 2. For example, some of the 8 or 16 tiles are duplicates of each other which wastes space.

[SGR]

Heh, you do have a point, I noticed that. The duplicates are actually used, but overall wasteful.

[Wyvernlord]

Sonic Team WAS lazy when they made Sonic 2. A good example would be Hill Top. All it is Emarald Hill with a different background and a butt-ugly pallete. The level is so unoriginal and uninspired, it's sad. This is just my opinion though.

This post has been edited by Wyvernlord II: 28 June 2004 - 07:02 PM

[ComPro]

The fact that they kept Hill Top and removed Hidden Palace, Wood, and others still gets me. How can they keep the most unoriginal zones but trash the most unique?

[Hayate]

Hill Top may be unoriginal but the game takes EHZ's tiles and overwrites some of them with HTZ ones (like the trees). Since they cut HPZ "because of size issues", removing HTZ and putting HPZ in its place would have been useless as HTZ takes less space than HPZ.

[SGR]

HPZ was in the final, even if it did take up space, they could've done minor changes. (remove sprites, shorten level layout, etc.) Meh, I will never forgive sonic team for making HTZ.

[Hayate]

SGR, on Jun 28 2004, 09:22 PM, said:

HPZ was in the final, even if it did take up space, they could've done minor changes. (remove sprites, shorten level layout, etc.) Meh, I will never forgive sonic team for making HTZ.

Yes, but THE LEVEL ART WASN'T. Since they're so lazy I'll bet they couldn't be arsed to get rid of the objects and rings. lol.

[Quickman]

bobxp, on Jun 28 2004, 10:27 PM, said:

Since they're so lazy I'll bet they couldn't be arsed to get rid of the objects and rings. lol.

It's a case of getting rid of what needs to be got rid of. The reason the Chikki Chikki Boys graphics are in the beta was because they didn't see fit to overwrite them. The Hidden Palace Zone graphics would have stayed in betas until they got overwritten with god knows what else (and no, the OOZ graphics didn't overwrite them - the pointers were overwritten for god knows what reason). The Wood Zone palette stayed in because they never put anything over the top of it.

[SGR]

Hmm, you're right bobxp, forgot to mention that, but what I said about the sprites, layout and things is true.

[Rika Chou]

bobxp, on Jun 28 2004, 02:20 PM, said:

May belong in the SGD forum, but still it's to do with hacking so meh.

Anyway, I wonder why there are 400 (hex) 16x16 tiles. When editing tiles with SonED - let's take for example Chemical Plant Zone, what I find to be the most space-using zone in Sonic 2 (as far as graphics is concerned), I always see that even though there's as many 8 and 128 tiles used as possible, the 16s are only around 1/2 to 2/3 full. It's completely pointless having that many when to use any more you would - most times - need either to have extra 128s or extra 8s.

Also, Sonic Team seem to be VERY lazy and untidy while making Sonic 2. For example, some of the 8 or 16 tiles are duplicates of each other which wastes space.

16x16 take up the least amount of space in the ROM. There need to be duplicates some times because they need to have different collision, or they need to be on a different plain. Sonic Team was not lazy creating Sonic 2, the art and tiles are very complex.

[SGR]

Meh, that's a good explaination. I never took the time to think about that. ^_^;

[Hayate]

Rika Chou, on Jun 29 2004, 12:46 AM, said:

bobxp, on Jun 28 2004, 02:20 PM, said:

May belong in the SGD forum, but still it's to do with hacking so meh.

Anyway, I wonder why there are 400 (hex) 16x16 tiles. When editing tiles with SonED - let's take for example Chemical Plant Zone, what I find to be the most space-using zone in Sonic 2 (as far as graphics is concerned), I always see that even though there's as many 8 and 128 tiles used as possible, the 16s are only around 1/2 to 2/3 full. It's completely pointless having that many when to use any more you would - most times - need either to have extra 128s or extra 8s.

Also, Sonic Team seem to be VERY lazy and untidy while making Sonic 2. For example, some of the 8 or 16 tiles are duplicates of each other which wastes space.

16x16 take up the least amount of space in the ROM. There need to be duplicates some times because they need to have different collision, or they need to be on a different plain. Sonic Team was not lazy creating Sonic 2, the art and tiles are very complex.

Well explain why there are at least three of the vertical 16px wide checkered block tiles that are exactly the same. They don't need different collision indexes. Oh, and I'm pretty sure the plane is specified in the 128 tiles, unless SonED is lying.

[8-Bit Dragon]

A little late to say this but whatever. Even if they did have room for the additional levels, those ideas would have been used up and we would have a crappy Sonic 3 and likely there wouldn't be a Sonic & Knuckles.

[Quickman]

8-Bit Dragon, on Jun 29 2004, 08:37 PM, said:

Even if they did have room for the additional levels, those ideas would have been used up and we would have a crappy Sonic 3 and likely there wouldn't be a Sonic & Knuckles.

S&K was a direct result of S3 being cut in half. We'd probably still have it regardless of what was different about S3.

[Hayate]

8-Bit Dragon, on Jun 29 2004, 08:37 PM, said:

A little late to say this but whatever. Even if they did have room for the additional levels, those ideas would have been used up and we would have a crappy Sonic 3 and likely there wouldn't be a Sonic & Knuckles.

wtf? :blink: