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SEGA Genesis / Mega Drive Classics coming to PS4, XB1, PC; May 31 Again.

#31 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 14 March 2018 - 07:33 PM

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Ignoring S3k again huh? Well fuck this.

Fix this legal hell already SEGA the hell. But it is weird, why is it only a problem since 2011 or so? Prior to then there was some strangeness but not to this level. What changed?
This post has been edited by Dark Sonic: 14 March 2018 - 07:36 PM

#32 User is offline Yash 

Posted 14 March 2018 - 08:41 PM

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Anyone still want to pretend that legal issues aren't holding back S3K's release?

#33 User is offline MykonosFan 

Posted 14 March 2018 - 10:29 PM

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View PostDark Sonic, on 14 March 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

Ignoring S3k again huh? Well fuck this.

Fix this legal hell already SEGA the hell. But it is weird, why is it only a problem since 2011 or so? Prior to then there was some strangeness but not to this level. What changed?


If we are to assume the legal issues are the reason, it's possible that things finally escalated around that time to the point of what's essentially a stalemate. Either side waiting for / fearing the other making a move to make/break their case. I hope some day we find out what is going on, because it has to be interesting

#34 User is offline big smile 

Posted 15 March 2018 - 12:07 PM

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View PostPengi, on 14 March 2018 - 06:13 PM, said:

It's so weird that they went to those lengths for S&K Collection, but just four months later released it unaltered in Sonic Jam, and continued to re-release it right up until January 2011.



It's much weirder than that!
In 2017, they re-released Sonic 3 on the Brazilian Mega Drive.
And in 2015, they did a remix of Ice Cap for a Sonic music album.
And then of course Sonic 3 is still for sale on Steam.

Can someone explain this? It's just bizarre. Especially the Ice Cap remix.

#35 User is offline Clownacy 

Posted 15 March 2018 - 12:27 PM

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Then you have Mania. I could have sworn there was an interview where Hydrocity's music was explicitly confirmed to be a Jackson song.

#36 User is offline Ashura96 

Posted 15 March 2018 - 01:57 PM

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I thought Hydrocity was a Cirrocco Jones composition.

#37 User is offline Pengi 

Posted 15 March 2018 - 02:24 PM

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View Postbig smile, on 15 March 2018 - 12:07 PM, said:

View PostPengi, on 14 March 2018 - 06:13 PM, said:

It's so weird that they went to those lengths for S&K Collection, but just four months later released it unaltered in Sonic Jam, and continued to re-release it right up until January 2011.



It's much weirder than that!
In 2017, they re-released Sonic 3 on the Brazilian Mega Drive.
And in 2015, they did a remix of Ice Cap for a Sonic music album.
And then of course Sonic 3 is still for sale on Steam.

Can someone explain this? It's just bizarre. Especially the Ice Cap remix.


Not only is Sonic 3 & Knuckles still available on Steam, but Sonic 3 is also still available on Xbox Marketplace and Wii Virtual Console (which is shutting down soon). As I said, I'm not a lawyer, but it's possible that suddenly de-listing Sonic 3 from these services could be viewed as a tacit admission that they shouldn't have released it in the first place. Which could land them in even more hot water.

The Tec Toy Mega Drive and the remix album are both very odd cases. I can only assume that it's a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. They're both obscure enough to easily fly under the radar.

I wonder how much of an impact the "discovery" of The Jetzons' Hard Times had. The Michael Jackson stuff is a lot of "five seconds of this sounds like six seconds of that". But IceCap Zone and Hard Times are absolutely the same song, with Hard Times predating Sonic 3 by 12 years. That's a HUGE can of worms. Especially with Bruce Connole being listed as the composer of Hard Times, not Brad Buxer. There's a good chance that Sega weren't aware of this until we were, and that Brad maybe did something he shouldn't have.

#38 User is offline RibShark 

Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:09 PM

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We know from Bobby Brooks' refusal to be interviewed that there have been legal issues around the soundtrack before the discovery of Hard Times, so I doubt that finding had any impact.

#39 User is offline Clownacy 

Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:16 PM

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View PostAshura96, on 15 March 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

I thought Hydrocity was a Cirrocco Jones composition.

Just so I don't sound crazy, I suppose I should have given more detail. The interview I believe was with Brad Buxer, and he recalled how, in the middle of the night, he got a phone call from Jackson, who told him he'd just come up with a song, and beatboxed an early version of HCZ's theme to him.

...You know, when I put it like that, it sounds absolutely insane.

Anyway, if I remember right, it was the same interview where they played one of the game's songs to him (can't remember if it was HCZ), and he recognised it.

EDIT: Just rewatching a video on the subject, Cirrocco is brought up here, crediting 'level 2' to Jackson.
This post has been edited by Clownacy: 15 March 2018 - 04:40 PM

#40 User is offline Covarr 

Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:28 PM

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View PostClownacy, on 15 March 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

The interview I believe was with Brad Buxer, and he recalled how, in the middle of the night, he got a phone call from Jackson, who told him he'd just come up with a song, and beatboxed an early version of HCZ's theme to him.

...You know, when I put it like that, it sounds absolutely insane.

Insane? Beatboxing people music over the phone in the middle of the night has Jackson written all over it.

#41 User is offline XD375 

Posted 21 March 2018 - 03:41 AM

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When I did music for a video game that ultimately got unreleased I sent demos almost exclusively in the middle of the night.

#42 User is offline BlackFive 

Posted 22 March 2018 - 08:33 AM

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View PostClownacy, on 15 March 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

View PostAshura96, on 15 March 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

I thought Hydrocity was a Cirrocco Jones composition.

Just so I don't sound crazy, I suppose I should have given more detail. The interview I believe was with Brad Buxer, and he recalled how, in the middle of the night, he got a phone call from Jackson, who told him he'd just come up with a song, and beatboxed an early version of HCZ's theme to him.

...You know, when I put it like that, it sounds absolutely insane.

Anyway, if I remember right, it was the same interview where they played one of the game's songs to him (can't remember if it was HCZ), and he recognised it.

EDIT: Just rewatching a video on the subject, Cirrocco is brought up here, crediting 'level 2' to Jackson.


I think it was only Cirocco who accredited Michael Jackson to Hydrocity (or "The Water") and I don't think he ever confirmed that it was the same track that appeared in the game. We know that Sonic 3's music team would pitch several tracks for each level, and Naka & Co. would pick the one that they preferred. It's possible that "The Water" never got past the pitching stage, or possibly it was intended to be in the final game but MJ, unhappy with how the tune translated to the hardware, wanted it taken out.

The Brad Buxer interview doesn't ring a bell. I'm familiar with the 2009 interview (where he states he's never played the game and doesn't know what made it into the final build, but confirms the credits/Stranger in Moscow connection). I re-read the Huffington Post article on the subject as well, but once again there's nothing written about Hydrocity.

#43 User is offline Laura 

Posted 25 March 2018 - 04:42 AM

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Hydrocity is almost certainly made by the Japanese team. One thing that almost always gets missed is that the zone songs made by Jackson's team (Carnival Night, Ice Cap, Launch Base) have very light second act remixes, while the ones by the Japanese team have complex second act remixes (Angel Island, Marble Garden). Hydrocity has a very complex second act remix, pointing to the Japanese team.

Additionally, the songs by Jackson's team (Miniboss, Sonic 3 theme and invincibility, Carnival Night, Icecap, Launch Base, Credits) are very similar in style, all featuring voice samples and most a 90s pop hip hop vibe. You can tell they are by a different team just by how different the songs are musically. The Japanese songs are much more conventionally 'gamey', including Hydrocity.

Hydrocity's music being used in Mania also implies that it's a track which can be used, further suggesting it is by the Japanese team.

I do, however, think its an assumption that 'all' of Jackson's team music is a problem. For all we know it could only be one or two tracks, since we have no idea which track is composed by who other than Ice Cap by Buxer. Nor do we know how many people worked on each track. There might be only one person in the team who is pressing legal charges.

As for Ice Cap resembling Hard Times since he wasnt the composer, I think Buxer plaguiarising the song can't be a good thing, but it's uncertain (and doubtful honestly) that the Jetzon members are even aware of it.

#44 User is offline Clownacy 

Posted 25 March 2018 - 08:07 AM

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Right well, quick update, but I think this is what I was thinking of.

Also the lacking Act 2 remixes could have something to do with them all being the last three zones, for all we know.

#45 User is offline DigitalDuck 

Posted 25 March 2018 - 08:09 AM

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View PostClownacy, on 25 March 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

Also the lacking Act 2 remixes could have something to do with them all being the last three zones, for all we know.


They weren't the last three zones when the music was written.

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