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Would Knuckles Chaotix play better as a solo game? Think optional combining...

#16 User is offline Covarr 

Posted 13 March 2017 - 10:53 AM

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Man, I didn't even like the art. Everything was too plasticine, with those awful white shines everywhere.

But yeah, even with the partner mechanic removed, this game simply doesn't have much to offer. A platformer lives or dies by its physics and level design, and the level design here is frustratingly dull, empty, and repetitive. The level design is so focused on showing off that tether mechanic that it frequently fails to be engaging in its own right and ultimately comes across as a very polished tech demo. The best content is near the end of the game, but the early content is so boring that I rarely want to play far enough to start enjoying it.

If you want to fix this game, there's two things that need to be changed:

  • The levels are too vertical. I can get making them more vertical than other Sonic games, but I feel they've gone too far. Too much of the game is climbing, which gets tedious.
  • More obstacles. Whether enemies or setpiece gimmicks, there simply aren't enough things impeding your path throughout the game, either in variety or density. Far too much of the game is simply navigating ordinary level design, platforms, quarter pipes, etc., which can get repetitive if there aren't enough other challenges to overcome between them.


Put another way, I think the tether mechanic would be far more fun in Sonic 3 than it is here, because the tether mechanic really isn't the problem with this game in the first place, except insofar as the developers put it too front and center to the detriment of interesting level design.
This post has been edited by Covarr: 13 March 2017 - 10:54 AM

#17 User is offline MartiusR 

Posted 13 March 2017 - 03:15 PM

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View PostJcFerggy, on 10 March 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:

I'm just laying here thinking about Knuckles Chaotix after just having watched a video about it. Would it be better if it played more like Sonic 3K?

Like imagine running free, but having a button that when pressed activated the combusting, instantly spawning your partner at your current location, and pressing it again removed the ring. I think the spin dash would have to be beefed up and made similar to earlier Sonic games. I think all characters have the ability to climb or gain altitude, as well as being able to use the combusting at will to platform or get items.

I'm not requesting someone to do this, I'm just trying to make an open dialogue on, if the cobiering was more optional and was more a gimmick instead of a core gameplay mechanic, would have it have been better. We could have had actual loops.

I hope this an OK think to post about..


I know for sure, that such change would definitelly convince me to play in Knuckles Chaotix more than a couple of minutes. I would compare (playing in KC with constantly "chained" characters) it to playing in any platform game and catching at the beginning some major debuff, which you can't get rid of through entire game. I know that it's a bit unfair to judge the game with only a couple of minuts of gameplay, but I couldn't stand it and eventually give up.

#18 User is offline LimitCrown 

Posted 13 March 2017 - 03:20 PM

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If the tether mechanic were to be placed in more horizontal levels, then there would need to be more walls to prevent people from breaking the levels. However, in that instance, there would potentially be much less space to use the tether mechanic to its fullest extent. i also get the feeling that if more enemies were placed in the levels, then people would begin to complain about being hit by them too often and accuse this as being bad design or fake difficulty, regardless of whether or not that is actually the case.

Besides, I get the feeling that few people actually know how to use the tether mechanic well. The majority of the playthroughs of the game that you can find on Youtube have people struggling to control their inertia effectively. This is partially the game's fault, though, since its tutorial isn't very specific about how to do that; instead, it only teaches a handful of techniques that can be applied. Once you know how to use the mechanic correctly, then you'll find that you don't need to rely so much on climbing walls in order to reach the higher paths and you'll be able to go through the levels more quickly.
This post has been edited by LimitCrown: 13 March 2017 - 03:26 PM

#19 User is offline Covarr 

Posted 13 March 2017 - 03:28 PM

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View PostLimitCrown, on 13 March 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

Once you know how to use the mechanic correctly, then you'll find that you don't need to rely so much on climbing walls in order to reach the higher paths and you'll be able to go through the levels more quickly.

I didn't mean climbing literally as in Knuckles' climb ability. I meant it as in ascending. So much of the game is about going higher and higher, and it's just not terribly interesting to actually do. Even if you maintain your momentum, this game just feels content-sparse, like they couldn't think of a variety of ideas to keep the player busy so they gave us a few challenges repeated constantly.

#20 User is offline LimitCrown 

Posted 13 March 2017 - 04:07 PM

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Oh. That's understandable. I do wish that there were more set pieces to distinguish the different levels of each attraction from each other. However, I don't think that having a more vertical level design is itself worse. Of the five attractions, I like the level designs of Botanic Base, Marina Madness, and Amazing Arena the most. Techno Tower and Speed Slider need more to distinguish the early levels from each other, in my opinion.

Related to that, I wish that the day-night cycle played more of a part in the game. It's not immediately noticeable, but there are some small differences in the ways that the different attractions affected by it. There are doors in Botanic Base that open only in certain times of day, the one-way barriers in some levels of Speed Slider change position, the bosses of Marina Madness and Techno Tower have their attack patterns change, and the optional sub-boss in the different levels of Amazing Arena takes a different amount of hits depending on the time of day. However, it's overall not utilized well enough to make much of a difference.

#21 User is offline Ell678 

Posted 13 March 2017 - 04:40 PM

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I played it when I got back into the Sonic fandom about 10 years ago. I think I finished it once and never played it again - I felt disappointed that a game I covetted as a kid turned out to be so shit.

The gameplay is obviously the main problem, but I am also not a fan of...well...anything else. Honestly, I wouldn't even rate the soundtrack as high as others do. To me there are only a couple of good themes.

#22 User is offline Hukos 

Posted 13 March 2017 - 05:26 PM

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I'm not really getting the "Its shit" complaints. When I think of "Worst games from the Genesis/SNES era" Chaotix isn't even close to the top 50 games I'd name. Unless we're going by "If something isn't perfect, its garbage" type of internet mentality, in which case all I can say is I think you're horribly wrong but there's probably not much I can do to change your minds. :v:

Chaotix is absolutely a flawed game and has quite a number of problems - but the game functions perfectly fine and as far as games in the franchise go, I like it more than some others that were released around this time.

To me, the worst thing you can really say about Chaotix is that its boring. My opinion is that its a very average game with fantastic visuals and music, which is more than what I can say for some more notable games from the 16 bit era.

#23 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 13 March 2017 - 06:08 PM

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I don't think anyone is saying it's the worst game ever, but when stacked against the classics which were on said console, it's much shutter by comparison.

I mean I would rather play Chaotix over Bubsy any day, but I'd rather play Sonic 3 than either of them.

EDIT: I should clarify, I meant the classics as in the Sonic classics. That was when the series was at it's prime for many, so Chaotix has a lot to live up to, which it didn't. Doesn't mean it's not better than Sonic 06 though :specialed:
This post has been edited by Dark Sonic: 13 March 2017 - 06:42 PM

#24 User is offline Hukos 

Posted 13 March 2017 - 06:37 PM

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Fair enough, but you could say that some pretty damn good games are shit compared to S3&K.

For what its worth though, I've played so many average to mediocre games, that a game has to be almost non-functioning for me to consider it shit. I suppose this is where my confusion stems from.
This post has been edited by Hukos: 13 March 2017 - 06:43 PM

#25 User is offline null1024 

Posted 28 March 2017 - 01:22 AM

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It almost certainly would have been a better game if the designers didn't have to compromise stage design for the combi-ring system. We'd have had actual, well thought out stages and they wouldn't have had to have removed loops.
The game's gorgeous, the music is fantastic, but the stage design is awful. At best it's bland, at worst it's utterly unfocused without sense or reason, like they truly didn't know what to do because of the combi-ring.

I actually enjoy the stupid rubber-band, it's fun to play with, but it seems to have hurt the game badly overall.

#26 User is offline winterhell 

Posted 28 March 2017 - 02:25 AM

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If people say 'its the worst game ever' or 'its shit', it means that the game is actually popular and worthy of the attention.
With Sonic '06 people had super high expectations and it didnt deliver. If it was a no-name brand, people wouldnt care, it'd be just another average platformer.

As for Chaotix (and X-Treme?) people might have expected a god-tier masterpiece on the level of Sonic & Knuckles, but it didnt reach that.
Personally, Chaotix is among my Top 10 Sonic games, and I've played more than 50 of those.

#27 User is offline Drex 

Posted 28 March 2017 - 11:53 AM

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Nah, overhype isn't the reason. It's a Sonic game without Sonic gameplay. From its barren vertical levels to its combi mechanic hindering characters abilities and basic movement.

It's fine that you like it, but it's foolish to ignore its design flaws and pretend that it had anywhere near as much advertising and hype as '06.

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