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Sonic Generations Hacking (and More!) Generations Cracked wide open (Custom Levels are an ongoing event!

#4816 User is offline Dario FF 

Posted 17 September 2018 - 07:58 PM

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View PostMurasaki Fox, on 17 September 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

It didn't include the skeleton. It's possible that we just did it wrong, though. Does it require the .skl.hkx file to be present?

Type both the .model and the .skl.hkx file as parameters and it should rig it.

Usage: modelfbx [mesh.model] [skeleton.skl.hkx] [animation.anm.hkx] [output.fbx]
 - First 3 parameters can be in any order. You can omit any parameter for excluding elements from the output.



The skeleton data inside the .model files aren't the real skeletons but rather the binding pose matrices used for skinning IIRC, so recreating skeletons from those is not completely accurate when it comes to animation playback. That's why the tool asks for the skeleton hkx file.
This post has been edited by Dario FF: 17 September 2018 - 08:00 PM

#4817 User is offline Murasaki Fox 

Posted 18 September 2018 - 09:11 AM

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View PostDario FF, on 17 September 2018 - 07:58 PM, said:

View PostMurasaki Fox, on 17 September 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

It didn't include the skeleton. It's possible that we just did it wrong, though. Does it require the .skl.hkx file to be present?

Type both the .model and the .skl.hkx file as parameters and it should rig it.

Usage: modelfbx [mesh.model] [skeleton.skl.hkx] [animation.anm.hkx] [output.fbx]
 - First 3 parameters can be in any order. You can omit any parameter for excluding elements from the output.



The skeleton data inside the .model files aren't the real skeletons but rather the binding pose matrices used for skinning IIRC, so recreating skeletons from those is not completely accurate when it comes to animation playback. That's why the tool asks for the skeleton hkx file.


It worked! Turns out the issue was a typo, but seeing it written like this helped us figure out where the issue was. xD

Thanks for your help! One more question if you don't mind - is hkxcmd still the best way to mass-convert animations?
This post has been edited by Murasaki Fox: 18 September 2018 - 09:12 AM

#4818 User is offline Andrew75 

Posted 18 September 2018 - 02:15 PM

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At one point I had all the models and assets ripped from the game, and burned everything to a Blueray disk along with a lot of handy tools. and that disk got corrupted over time. and I lost all the assets.
I'm wondering if anyone has them all tucked away anywhere if they would be willing to share them back to me at some point for preservation purposes. (We can discuss in Private message)

#4819 User is offline SuperSnoopy 

Posted 18 September 2018 - 02:19 PM

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Not really what you asked for, but:

View PostAndrew75, on 18 September 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

that disk got corrupted over time.

That can happen?
That's kinda worrisome, I got a bunch of shit burned into disks I wouldn't wanna see disappear.

#4820 User is offline XRick 

Posted 18 September 2018 - 03:03 PM

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As far as I know, Discs lose quality over time. You'd better not assume they'll be eternal.
This post has been edited by XRick: 18 September 2018 - 03:03 PM

#4821 User is offline Andrew75 

Posted 18 September 2018 - 03:11 PM

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View PostXRick, on 18 September 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

As far as I know, Discs lose quality over time. You'd better not assume they'll be eternal.

Yes the ink runs on the disks.
You can always go M-Disk burner and media which can last over 1000 years apparently.( we'll see) they look exactly like CDs or DVDs
I'll be making that my next Tech purchase I thinks, have a lot of photos and long lost sonic Xtreme files that I don't ever want to see vanish.
This post has been edited by Andrew75: 18 September 2018 - 03:33 PM

#4822 User is offline Dario FF 

Posted 18 September 2018 - 05:44 PM

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View PostMurasaki Fox, on 18 September 2018 - 09:11 AM, said:

It worked! Turns out the issue was a typo, but seeing it written like this helped us figure out where the issue was. xD

Thanks for your help! One more question if you don't mind - is hkxcmd still the best way to mass-convert animations?

modelfbx can also output the animations if you add them as a parameter. You can specify only the .skl.hkx and the .anm.hkx if you wish to make each FBX file significantly lighter as well instead of including the mesh data. That's how I mass-converted most of the animations using a batch file.

As for being the best way, it's a bit debatable since it doesn't really export the original animation curves but rather just samples the animation at its original FPS using the Havok SDK for the result. Scaling is also not supported IIRC, but I don't think hkxcmd handles that well either. You won't find that many animations that use scaling that much though, other than the Werehog's. AFAIK hkxcmd has the same problems (at least back when I tried it) so it shouldn't be a big deal.
This post has been edited by Dario FF: 18 September 2018 - 05:46 PM

#4823 User is offline sonicblur 

Posted 18 September 2018 - 09:05 PM

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View PostAndrew75, on 18 September 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

View PostXRick, on 18 September 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

As far as I know, Discs lose quality over time. You'd better not assume they'll be eternal.

Yes the ink runs on the disks.
You can always go M-Disk burner and media which can last over 1000 years apparently.( we'll see) they look exactly like CDs or DVDs

According to wikipedia, average life of a recordable disc (CD-R, DVD-R, etc.) is 10 years.

But it's all down to the quality of the chemicals in the discs you buy. Back in 2000, most of the blank CD-R's on sale were great. I have Dreamcast discs that I burned 18 years ago that still read perfectly fine. I just went to one of my old spindles, grabbed one of the bottom discs (A CD-R burned on December 30th 2000) and tested it out. The disc is fully readable by the external Blu-Ray burner that I use today. I've noticed that 'newer' discs (2004 and beyond) all had very lightly colored bottoms, where it's difficult to even see with your eyes that the disc was burned. Check out this photo of the bottom of the CD-R that I just tested. It was a spindle of 100 Verbatim CD-R's that I bought sometime in 2000, the bottoms were all a nice rich blue color and you could clearly see where the data was burned. If you compare that to newer CD-Rs, they are so much lighter in color you could barely see the burned area. I'm not saying that's necessarily the reason they were so much better, since ultimately the laser isn't detecting reflections the way our eyes do, but in my experience the discs that had more contrast to the burned area on the bottom happened to be the same discs that lasted the longest. If you look at M-discs, they also have very good contrast in the burned area after being used. All of the discs that I've had problems with even after first burning them always were faded looking on the bottom, or had a weird cloudy appearance instead of being uniform. I've had decent luck with dual layer DVD+R's, many of those had a nice deep purple color, but nothing beats those early 2000 CD-R's with the dark blue recording surface. Well... I guess that's not entirely true.

You can buy "Archival Grade" Phthalocyanine CD-Rs and DVD-R's, they're claimed to last 100 to 300 years. Not as long as M-Disc claims, but much cheaper than M-disc and don't require a new burner. Unfortunately, when it comes to BD-R M-Disc seems to have market domination on that. Panasonic seems to be the only company that makes archival grade BD-R, and they're more expensive than M-Disc.


Sorry for trailing off, it just disappoints me that a lot of people have burned discs that stop working after 3 years or so. I haven't used discs for backup for probably 9 years now (multiple hard drives ended up being more convenient) but thankfully most of the old ones I still have are still fine.

#4824 User is offline Andrew75 

Posted 18 September 2018 - 09:31 PM

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View Postsonicblur, on 18 September 2018 - 09:05 PM, said:

View PostAndrew75, on 18 September 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

View PostXRick, on 18 September 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

As far as I know, Discs lose quality over time. You'd better not assume they'll be eternal.

Yes the ink runs on the disks.
You can always go M-Disk burner and media which can last over 1000 years apparently.( we'll see) they look exactly like CDs or DVDs

According to wikipedia, average life of a recordable disc (CD-R, DVD-R, etc.) is 10 years.

But it's all down to the quality of the chemicals in the discs you buy. Back in 2000, most of the blank CD-R's on sale were great. I have Dreamcast discs that I burned 18 years ago that still read perfectly fine. I just went to one of my old spindles, grabbed one of the bottom discs (A CD-R burned on December 30th 2000) and tested it out. The disc is fully readable by the external Blu-Ray burner that I use today. I've noticed that 'newer' discs (2004 and beyond) all had very lightly colored bottoms, where it's difficult to even see with your eyes that the disc was burned. Check out this photo of the bottom of the CD-R that I just tested. It was a spindle of 100 Verbatim CD-R's that I bought sometime in 2000, the bottoms were all a nice rich blue color and you could clearly see where the data was burned. If you compare that to newer CD-Rs, they are so much lighter in color you could barely see the burned area. I'm not saying that's necessarily the reason they were so much better, since ultimately the laser isn't detecting reflections the way our eyes do, but in my experience the discs that had more contrast to the burned area on the bottom happened to be the same discs that lasted the longest. If you look at M-discs, they also have very good contrast in the burned area after being used. All of the discs that I've had problems with even after first burning them always were faded looking on the bottom, or had a weird cloudy appearance instead of being uniform. I've had decent luck with dual layer DVD+R's, many of those had a nice deep purple color, but nothing beats those early 2000 CD-R's with the dark blue recording surface. Well... I guess that's not entirely true.

You can buy "Archival Grade" Phthalocyanine CD-Rs and DVD-R's, they're claimed to last 100 to 300 years. Not as long as M-Disc claims, but much cheaper than M-disc and don't require a new burner. Unfortunately, when it comes to BD-R M-Disc seems to have market domination on that. Panasonic seems to be the only company that makes archival grade BD-R, and they're more expensive than M-Disc.


Sorry for trailing off, it just disappoints me that a lot of people have burned discs that stop working after 3 years or so. I haven't used discs for backup for probably 9 years now (multiple hard drives ended up being more convenient) but thankfully most of the old ones I still have are still fine.



Yeah, I'm using multiple Hard disks myself, Seems cheaper per GB than doing the M-disks in the long run too. lol ( ive had disks die in less than a year myself) but yes all my old CDs from the late 90s and 2000s still work!
Make sure you spin them up every so often if you have the hard disks in storage! Also I hear tell that SSD are bad for long term storage , but that could be debatable.

P.S. If anyone has all the model assets ripped please, please contact me. ( looking for characters, level objects, and levels themselves.
This post has been edited by Andrew75: 18 September 2018 - 09:42 PM

#4825 User is offline Kharen 

Posted 22 September 2018 - 12:58 AM

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I'm kind of curious, are we still required to use an older version of 3DS Max, or will the newer versions work? It's been a long time since I seriously looked into doing anything, but I'm actually taking a 3D Modeling and Animation course at college, and we're going to be learning how to use the 2019 version. I thought it might be fun to have a side-project to tinker with while I'm learning.

By the way, completely off-topic, but since I brought up the class, I thought I'd ask while it's on my mind. I have an essay to do over the weekend regarding a question that my teacher has gotten asked every single time he's taught the class: "Why is there a teapot alongside the built-in basic shapes?". We were specifically told to find sources other than Wikipedia, so I figured asking the question directly and getting direct responses would be a good idea, alongside the typical Google searches and whatever.

#4826 User is offline sonicblur 

Posted 22 September 2018 - 05:57 PM

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View PostKharen, on 22 September 2018 - 12:58 AM, said:

By the way, completely off-topic, but since I brought up the class, I thought I'd ask while it's on my mind. I have an essay to do over the weekend regarding a question that my teacher has gotten asked every single time he's taught the class: "Why is there a teapot alongside the built-in basic shapes?". We were specifically told to find sources other than Wikipedia, so I figured asking the question directly and getting direct responses would be a good idea, alongside the typical Google searches and whatever.

Most wikipedia pages, especially ones on common topics like the GL Teapot, have a sources section at the bottom of the article. My strategy back when I was in school was to use Wikipedia anyway, but instead of using Wikipedia directly use the sources that the Wikipedia article references instead. That being said, you should have no problem finding non-wikipedia sources for it. Also, if books are still a thing, most books on computer graphics will have something about the Teapot. Might be a great source to look for, check the index for Teapot.

#4827 User is offline Skyth 

Posted 24 September 2018 - 05:46 AM

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View PostKharen, on 22 September 2018 - 12:58 AM, said:

I'm kind of curious, are we still required to use an older version of 3DS Max, or will the newer versions work? It's been a long time since I seriously looked into doing anything, but I'm actually taking a 3D Modeling and Animation course at college, and we're going to be learning how to use the 2019 version. I thought it might be fun to have a side-project to tinker with while I'm learning.

By the way, completely off-topic, but since I brought up the class, I thought I'd ask while it's on my mind. I have an essay to do over the weekend regarding a question that my teacher has gotten asked every single time he's taught the class: "Why is there a teapot alongside the built-in basic shapes?". We were specifically told to find sources other than Wikipedia, so I figured asking the question directly and getting direct responses would be a good idea, alongside the typical Google searches and whatever.

Nah, any version of 3DS Max works, if you use the new tools in LibGens, that is.
Only limitation I can imagine is importing custom skeletons/animations to the game which requires 3DS Max 2011 or below. (with skeleton I mean the .skl.hkx files)
This post has been edited by Skyth: 24 September 2018 - 05:47 AM

#4828 User is offline Murasaki Fox 

Posted 27 September 2018 - 02:01 PM

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Steve is still having trouble accessing the forums so I'll continue to post for him. xD

We've got the process down really well for all characters except Sonic. With all other characters we can export individual animation files without having to include the character model itself, but Sonic's animations will only export alongside his model.

#4829 User is offline Melpontro 

Posted 26 October 2018 - 04:50 PM

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I did a thing

This post has been edited by Overlord: 27 October 2018 - 12:02 PM
Reason for edit: Remove the s in https

#4830 User is offline Lanzer 

Posted 28 October 2018 - 12:12 AM

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That is an impressive thing man, good to see you back.

Thinking of tinkering with Forces at all?

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