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Knuckles Chaotix Level Maps?

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Mikronaut, May 8, 2016.

  1. Mikronaut

    Mikronaut

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    I haven't seen level maps for Chaotix anywhere... is there a reason why they just don't exist? I know that the data format is difficult to work with, but has anyone attempted to get maps by other means? (Debug Mode, or exploration and drawing by hand, or anything else?)

    If nothing exists, I may try to attempt the creation of a map or two, but we'll see what happens.

    Thanks in advance!

    Edit: See post #3 for level maps! They aren't ideal, but they're the best I've got.
     
  2. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    SonED2 supports Chaotix, so it should be able to generate maps.
     
  3. Mikronaut

    Mikronaut

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    Cool, thanks for the info! Since I couldn't find these anywhere, presumably because some key objects are still listed as "unknown" in SonED2, I decided to export them myself. You can download the maps here, complete with rings, monitors, and finish signs, but not much else:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4X8Sla_k2TiY19MY1ZFSGJEUTg/view?usp=sharing

    They should still be useful for strategy and route-planning. (Marina Madness may be more difficult, but in the other levels, it's generally pretty easy to see where the moving mechanisms lead.) I have included maps of the five main zones plus the intro level (Isolated Island), but not the four training levels of Isolated island, the tutorial, the bosses, or the "overworld." If anyone wants those, I'd be happy to add them to the archive, and I will also be happy to update the maps once more objects are defined in SonED2. Cheers!
     
  4. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Screw zip archives - get them on the wiki, that's where they'll be loved!
     
  5. Mikronaut

    Mikronaut

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    I'd be happy to do that, but do you think it's worth it (or even acceptable) without some of the objects? (for example, without elevators or other moving parts?)
     
  6. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Anything is better than nothing.
     
  7. Beltway

    Beltway

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    Major thanks to Mikronauts for ripping the level maps for Knuckles' Chaotix. I'm a fan of the game and wanted to check out a full view its level design for quite some time--though namely for critique. I think the level design is the primary weakest aspect of the game and holds it back from a solid title all-around, so I've been curious on trying to pinpoint and ascribe what exactly are its faults, at least when compared to the level design of the mainline Genesis games.
     
  8. Mikronaut

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    Okay, I'll work on adding these to the wiki. Unfortunately it looks as though my forum account doesn't work on the wiki, though, and I am having difficulty finding into on how to register. But if I find that, then these maps should be added within a day.
     
  9. Lostgame

    Lostgame

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    You rock. This is one of my absolute favourite Sonic games.
     
  10. Awesome, I'd also like to see the maps!
     
  11. Rika Chou

    Rika Chou

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    It's really cool to see the full maps for this game. I had no idea that Soned2 supported Chaotix or that there was a split dissasembly (?).

    I feel like the level design was really limited due to the stupid combi ring. There's too many half loops, it feels like the same segments just repeat themselves.
     
  12. Ravenfreak

    Ravenfreak

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    I think Andlabs was the guy behind the split disassembly of Chaotix, though he's been inactive for quite sometime now. Still it's cool to see that someone has ripped the level maps from Chaotix, it's one of my favorite Sonic games of all time.
     
  13. Mikronaut

    Mikronaut

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    And, we are live!

    Chaotix Level Maps on the Wiki

    Now maybe I'll go and update the maps for Sonic 3 (and any other games that could use updated maps).
     
  14. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Thanks for making and uploading these!

    Seeing them side to side, except for a few exceptions, it kind of feels like the different level acts were intended to show the progress of the levels' in-universe construction.

    I mean, just have a look at Techno Tower:
    [​IMG]


    It would be interesting to also have the maps from the very first prototype which did include full loops, and check the internal level order to see if they actually go from more simple to more complex.
     
  15. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    The only reason to rerip other maps would be once SonLVL gets complete object definitions for them. Or, I guess if they're stored at half size or something.
     
  16. Mikronaut

    Mikronaut

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    This. The level maps at least for Sonic 3 (and possibly others) are about half-size, and don't include any objects. (Although, luckily, the Sonic CD ones are perfect. I'd hate to have to rip all 70 of those.) And I do plan on redoing the maps for Chaotix once the object definitions are finished. Actually, does anyone know how to edit the definitions in SonED2, or if this is something that can be done only by the developer?

    And @ICEknight, that's interesting. Thanks for pointing that out! It would make sense, since Chaotix is supposed to be a theme park in the process of construction. And that might explain one of the potential level design flaws as well, namely, that many of the levels feel very similar.
     
  17. nineko

    nineko

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    I remember that some maps were resized because the wiki software had a problem with the thumbnails or something if a picture was bigger than a certain number of pixels. Not sure if that has been fixed in the mean time.
     
  18. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    This was a problem, and may still be a problem, but full size versions should be uploaded to the wiki anyway. Once we've had this server upgrade I'm sure we can start fixing little bugs.

    I would like to see maps of all the prototypes, even if the levels are identical - at least then we can be certain they are identical. Empty rooms too - I want a map of Genocide City so we can easily see how empty it is.
     
  19. nineko

    nineko

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    FWIW, I agree with you. I've never been a fan of the resized maps.
     
  20. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    It'd be nice to have these with their respective time of day palettes too.

    Botanic Base also seems to progress with new sections and foliage growing over the scenery. These all show that things move fast in Sonic's world. In just a day, plants can grow a lot and Eggman can construct whole facilities. Eggman's ability to rapidly build machines and complexes is hinted at throughout the series.