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Sonic CD: The older prototype

#16 User is offline Andrew75 

Posted 07 March 2017 - 02:27 PM

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View Postflamewing, on 07 March 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

View PostAndrew75, on 07 March 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

I'm going to take a guess here, but
$5FC0 may be the R2 Worm snake ?
and
$7144 might just be the R2 AntLion or R2 BurroBot, as both seem to relate to being underground, although the AntLion seems to be a more likely a candidate. (I don't think the BurroBot was meant to go down deeper, but who knows lol ) but yeah the chunk drawing in the foreground could be rocks being displaced by the badnik as it moves deeper.
any way to get the AntLion sprite from below into the game and than test it out ?

I kind of doubt it is any of them; I think that these may be used on other SCD levels, but I haven't disassembled them all to test it out.

$5FC0 is completely stationary, apart from being animated; but since its animation data is missing, I can't be sure about anything. I only know it is a badnik of some sort because its collision flags are set to 6, meaning (1) it can hurt Sonic, (2) it can be destroyed by jumping on it, releasing a flower and (3) it is 6 by 6 in hitbox.

$7144 is not a badnik of any kind; here is a better description: it displays one of two sprite frames: both are 4 tiles high and 24 tiles wide (192 pixels), using 6 4x4 sprite pieces. All sprite pieces are identical, and they refer to either the 16 tiles at $3BA for frame 0, or the 16 tiles at $3CA for frame 1. Each frame is displayed for 5 frames before changing. The object's width setting is incorrectly set to 16 pixels, though, so it will vanish quickly if it gets off-screen. It will descend 4 pixels each frame until it has "fallen" $180 pixels. Until then, it will also draw a row of 12 16x16 blocks to plane A from the level layout centered at its current X position whenever its Y position is at a multiple of 16 pixels. It will only draw to non-empty blocks (not ID 0), and it will overwrite the corresponding chunk entry with $2002 (block $10, palette line 1; the corresponding chunk will start using $2002 instead of what was there before) and will try to write the corresponding tile through to VRAM (but fails). When the screen is refreshed (e.g., when you move away then come back) it will have the updated tiles.

In R11A the sprites are mosquis and the blocks are partially transparent grass tile.

$7144 is only on the Palmtree levels.

View PostAndrew75, on 07 March 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

Also want to ask, is there a place where all of the known Sonic CD data is being documented and analyzed publicly, sort of disassembly wiki?
and for some of the listed code, are there any screens and video showing any of that stuff off ?
What about the 510 Beta, has PPZ been fully explored there as well?

Except for qyuu's data dump, not public, not as far as I know. My R11A work is probably closest as I posted links to it on IRC, and have been meaning to finish splitting it and make scripts to help automate disassembling the other zones, but haven't had time for it.

This is all very interesting! I really appreciate you sharing some of your discoveries! I'd really like to say keep up the good work and maybe sometime when you get far enough, or when you have some time, I think everyone would love to see a topic or wiki or something dedicated to what else you uncover! ( even if its Work in progress) Sonic CD is my favorite Sonic game when it comes to hidden discoveries and unsolved mysteries. I must have more!

I still think that the snake worm badnik would fit the bill nicely for the $5FC0 you found, as it seems like it'd be a badnik which does not move. but yeah, we may never know. Also if you look into the beta dump, you may get some more clues and info related to R11A? If the beta has an R11A that is.
This post has been edited by Andrew75: 07 March 2017 - 02:42 PM

#17 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 07 March 2017 - 02:44 PM

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http://retrocdn.net/..._11.pdf&page=34 Mega Force (Spain - I posted the French version earlier but completeness etc.)


I've also re-written the game development page, putting the screenshots in (roughly) chronological order. A couple I'm confused by though - can we have a set of 510 prototype maps to compare?

(ditto for every other prototype ever)

#18 User is offline Andrew75 

Posted 07 March 2017 - 03:32 PM

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View PostBlack Squirrel, on 07 March 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

http://retrocdn.net/..._11.pdf&page=34 Mega Force (Spain - I posted the French version earlier but completeness etc.)


I've also re-written the game development page, putting the screenshots in (roughly) chronological order. A couple I'm confused by though - can we have a set of 510 prototype maps to compare?

(ditto for every other prototype ever)


Sadly I don't have or know any tools available that can rip the 510 beta map layouts, and I don't think SonLVL could rip them either. Perhaps one of the Tech members may be able to help with that!
This post has been edited by Andrew75: 07 March 2017 - 03:37 PM

#19 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 07 March 2017 - 05:12 PM

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p.s. if you're on a Sonic CD buzz, I have tons of old footage:

https://www.youtube....h?v=AuxWnycTZ3s
https://www.youtube....h?v=FzFprSPZMIs
https://www.youtube....h?v=6ELmvcNE0G8

I posted these a year or two ago but nobody noticed/cared. It's post 510 stuff, just with missing/different audio cues and oil slicks in one of the special stages.

All "issues" of Sega Video Magazine are loaded with gems, but they tend to just sit around until someone eventually volunteers their time.

#20 User is offline Andrew75 

Posted 07 March 2017 - 06:28 PM

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View PostBlack Squirrel, on 07 March 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

p.s. if you're on a Sonic CD buzz, I have tons of old footage:

https://www.youtube....h?v=AuxWnycTZ3s
https://www.youtube....h?v=FzFprSPZMIs
https://www.youtube....h?v=6ELmvcNE0G8

I posted these a year or two ago but nobody noticed/cared. It's post 510 stuff, just with missing/different audio cues and oil slicks in one of the special stages.

All "issues" of Sega Video Magazine are loaded with gems, but they tend to just sit around until someone eventually volunteers their time.

Oh , pretty fun videos ! I watched em all.

#21 User is offline Master Emerald 

Posted 07 March 2017 - 06:51 PM

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Wow, that Sonic Chaos GG on the video is using all the SMS songs!

#22 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 08 March 2017 - 01:44 PM

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ding ding ding ding ding

http://info.sonicret...107.pdf&page=44

GameFan reporting that Sonic CD has been "delayed" after a poor reception at "the Sega World show". Apparently it wasn't CD-like enough.


The event in question is Yuusei Sega World from December 1992. I suppose the Sonic standing on a compact disc might have been a clue that Sonic CD turned up in some form. I'd put good money on all those screenshots being released in conjunction with that event, filtering through to the Western media in early 1993. This would also explain why there wasn't much coverage - Yuusei Sega World wasn't widely reported (hence why we don't have a list of games shown) and I'm not sure any non-Japanese outlets were represented there.

This also suggests the animation was indeed being played on Mega-CD hardware - the screens are consistent with the 510 prototype.


We don't have many issues of GameFan to hand but they touched on it two months prior which may suggest they printed more details on the game in the past.

#23 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 08 March 2017 - 03:18 PM

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View PostBlack Squirrel, on 08 March 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

http://info.sonicret...107.pdf&page=44

GameFan reporting that Sonic CD has been "delayed" after a poor reception at "the Sega World show". Apparently it wasn't CD-like enough.

Maybe they didn't like the Japanese music?

#24 User is offline Andrew75 

Posted 08 March 2017 - 11:01 PM

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View PostICEknight, on 08 March 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

View PostBlack Squirrel, on 08 March 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

http://info.sonicret...107.pdf&page=44

GameFan reporting that Sonic CD has been "delayed" after a poor reception at "the Sega World show". Apparently it wasn't CD-like enough.

Maybe they didn't like the Japanese music?


Collison chaos in that magazine has some graphical differences going on ! And why is sonic air running I wonder....? ? ?
This post has been edited by Andrew75: 08 March 2017 - 11:07 PM

#25 User is offline minichapman 

Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:13 AM

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View PostAndrew75, on 08 March 2017 - 11:01 PM, said:

View PostICEknight, on 08 March 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

View PostBlack Squirrel, on 08 March 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

http://info.sonicret...107.pdf&page=44

GameFan reporting that Sonic CD has been "delayed" after a poor reception at "the Sega World show". Apparently it wasn't CD-like enough.

Maybe they didn't like the Japanese music?


Collison chaos in that magazine has some graphical differences going on ! And why is sonic air running I wonder....? ? ?


I guess you mean this pic?
Posted Image

I don't know about you guys, but to me it looks eerily like a mock-up perhaps. The air walking and the pose looks like something from a Sonic 2 mock-up, the enemies are always in there default pose. Other things to note is the Butterfly enemy has the top of their wings black and the flippers in the corner look like it could cause problems with the way they're stacked above each other.

#26 User is offline Andrew75 

Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:29 AM

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View Postminichapman, on 09 March 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:

View PostAndrew75, on 08 March 2017 - 11:01 PM, said:

View PostICEknight, on 08 March 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

View PostBlack Squirrel, on 08 March 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

http://info.sonicret...107.pdf&page=44

GameFan reporting that Sonic CD has been "delayed" after a poor reception at "the Sega World show". Apparently it wasn't CD-like enough.

Maybe they didn't like the Japanese music?


Collison chaos in that magazine has some graphical differences going on ! And why is sonic air running I wonder....? ? ?


I guess you mean this pic?
Posted Image

I don't know about you guys, but to me it looks eerily like a mock-up perhaps. The air walking and the pose looks like something from a Sonic 2 mock-up, the enemies are always in there default pose. Other things to note is the Butterfly enemy has the top of their wings black and the flippers in the corner look like it could cause problems with the way they're stacked above each other.

Oh wow !
Yeah and no score or life !
This post has been edited by Andrew75: 09 March 2017 - 08:32 AM

#27 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted 09 March 2017 - 01:55 PM

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That Sega Yuusei world promo:

Posted Image

Posted Image

??

Probably not, I guess...

#28 User is offline SonicGenesis89 

Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:54 PM

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View PostCooljerk, on 09 March 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

That Sega Yuusei world promo:

Posted Image

Posted Image

??

Probably not, I guess...


That picture could have been inspiration for that Special Stage's background. I always felt that they looked visually similar as well.

#29 User is offline OKei 

Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:32 PM

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Hey, so do you guys recall that Sonic 6290 remix heard in Gems Collection? Apparently, it was originally used as a promo track for the Sonic CD segment in Sega Video News Vol. 2 back when it was called CD Sonic.

The opening lyrics are "This is the future screen special remix of CD Sonic The Hedgehog´╗┐."

Spoiler

This post has been edited by OKei: 09 March 2017 - 03:33 PM

#30 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:13 PM

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View PostOKei, on 09 March 2017 - 03:32 PM, said:

Hey, so do you guys recall that Sonic 6290 remix heard in Gems Collection? Apparently, it was originally used as a promo track for the Sonic CD segment in Sega Video News Vol. 2 back when it was called CD Sonic.

The opening lyrics are "This is the future screen special remix of CD Sonic The Hedgehog´╗┐."

Spoiler



The falling physics in that Sega Video News clip are all jacked up. Anybody notice that? Sonic seems to slow down when he falls in that video.

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