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Cancelled SegaSonic game SegaSonic Bros. (1992) found Found by guy who found and dumped the popcorn machine thing

#286 User is offline ashthedragon 

Posted 07 December 2018 - 06:32 AM

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Wow, SEGA really hates trashing music, doesn't it?

Also... if the red hedgehog is called Ketchup, and the yellow one is Mustard.... whay about calling the new, white one Mayo? :v:

There are advances on porting the game to Mega Drive, Dustin M.O'Dell has been posting his research and advances on porting it into Megadrive/genesis on twitter. It also seems like this game started its life as a Mega Drive game, then ported to C2? It does not only have a Megadrive styled header, but also has the TMSS code, and seems like it it was written over megadrive code https://twitter.com/...468227333902336 https://twitter.com/...476222713319424

This is great. The game is full of surprises!

#287 User is offline Overlord 

Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:15 PM

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Once again, massive things happen when I disappear for a couple of days. This time something positive, which is nice :)

Great to see this has seen the light of day, drama regarding the fallout can be dealt with later. 8B was quite the surprise too!

#288 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 07 December 2018 - 05:36 PM

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Interesting...

Quote

Another hint that SegaSonic Bros. was developed for MD first: A good number of the color palettes are already in the right format! This works because the Genesis palette format (xxxxBBBxGGGxRRRx) is a subset of the System C format (xBGRBBBBGGGGRRRR).


Also, it's kinda working already.
This post has been edited by ICEknight: 07 December 2018 - 05:37 PM

#289 User is offline JaxTH 

Posted 07 December 2018 - 07:33 PM

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View PostOverlord, on 07 December 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

Once again, massive things happen when I disappear for a couple of days.

It never fails.

#290 User is offline SystemsReady 

Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:56 AM

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yoooo the special stage theme!!

There are some differences. 8b's backing percussion has a different structure (intense emphasis on beats 2 and 4, which makes it feel plodding...), its snare is very loud, and its hi-hats are much quieter. The bridge before the track loops feels much sloppier than the Sonic 3 version in a way I can't place, though it might be the percussion's fault there.

The waveforms are really, really different despite sounding similar enough that you can (mostly) layer the two versions together without it being an unholy mess, though how much of that is due to the Sonic 3 rip I don't know.

Posted Image

All in all, I don't think the Sonic 3 version is a simple "copy-paste", it got polished up a bit before being reused.

#291 User is offline Flygon 

Posted 08 December 2018 - 09:10 AM

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View PostICEknight, on 07 December 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:


The mad lad! This is awesome.

#292 User is offline Clownacy 

Posted 08 December 2018 - 12:05 PM

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The percussion's the exact same (bar everything being FM). The only differences in the song are some smpsModSet commands being shuffled around in the FM melody tracks.

Anyway, the reason the song doesn't work properly in Sonic 1 is because S1's driver moved the smpsReturn command from $F2 to something else, while this game's driver kept it in the normal slot.

Here's the song in SMPS2ASM format:

Spoiler


...Who is this Dustin guy anyway? I've never heard of him before.
This post has been edited by Clownacy: 08 December 2018 - 12:14 PM

#293 User is offline Ravenfreak 

Posted 08 December 2018 - 04:13 PM

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Dustin O'Dell uploads high quality Genesis music to his Youtube channel. I've been subscribed to him for a while now, it's interesting to see that he's taking the time to port the game to the Genesis! I've mentioned Retro to him in the past, he's done quite a bit to rip Jurassic Park: Rampage Edtion's music.

#294 User is offline Naean 

Posted 08 December 2018 - 05:54 PM

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Everything surrounding the discovery of this game and unearthing its contents has been amazing. Hats off to all involved! :thumbsup:

To think that all this time, the Special Stage music for Sonic 3 & Knuckles actually originated somewhere else prior! It reminds me a bit of the Hard Times song discovery for IceCap Zone's music. :)


View Postevilhamwizard, on 05 December 2018 - 01:29 AM, said:

A magical fairy dropped this off.

Music rip (including tracks that go unreferenced in the sound test)

There's a nice surprise in there. :)

As I was listening through the soundtrack you provided, track 85 caught my attention almost immediately, in that (to me, at least) it has more than a passing resemblance to an unused music track from Sonic Jam.

I've put together a quick-ish audio comparison video, starting off with a rough mashup, followed by comparing segments of each track side by side. I also slowed down the SegaSonic Bros. track to match the speed of the Sonic Jam track.



To be fair, there are some points where they don't match up well (The mashup portion clashes pitch-wise.), and both tracks have significant differences to be sure, yet at the same time, they feel quite similar to me.

Is it just me? Am I the only one hearing a big similarity with this? ^o^
This post has been edited by Naean: 08 December 2018 - 05:55 PM

#295 User is offline evilhamwizard 

Posted 08 December 2018 - 07:40 PM

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Game mode 01, which is loc_755C loads this up if you change the game mode while in the main game. It freezes everywhere else. It's supposed to be used at the title screen. Interestingly, the code for going to the options menu is still there in the title screen routine. It checks to see if the currently pressed button if $70, which doesn't correlate to anything for the System C afaik. But it could correlate to A,B,C on the original Megadrive controller. It's also set to branch away from the game mode change always, which kinda makes it pointless anyways:

ROM:0000736A loc_736A:                               ; CODE XREF: ROM:00007342j
ROM:0000736A                                         ; ROM:00007352j
ROM:0000736A                 cmpi.b  #$70,(word_FFE10C).w ; 'p' ; Compare Immediate
ROM:00007370                 bra.s   loc_737A        ; Branch Always
ROM:00007372 ; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ROM:00007372                 move.w  #1,(RAM_CurrentGameModeID).w ; Move Data from Source to Destination
ROM:00007378                 rts                     ; Return from Subroutine


Posted Image

Some really interesting things there. Evidence of localization and a menu screen. Selecting English doesn't change anything. 1P mode (which doesn't work). VS mode (which loads the VS mode in the current game), and a 2P mode which still works. :)/>/>/>/>/>/>

Selecting options gives you another version of the test menu, which is more of a debugging menu at this point.

Also sometimes I can get stars to appear on the title screen at random. Not sure what triggers it:

Posted Image

Here are all the game modes accessible by the main loop:

ROM:0000052C ; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ROM:0000052E Array_GameModes:dc.l GM_SegaLogoLoop    ; 00 - 00
ROM:00000532                 dc.l GM_OptionsLoop     ; 04 - 01
ROM:00000536                 dc.l loc_3A26           ; 08 - 02
ROM:0000053A                 dc.l GM_MainGameInit    ; 0c - 03
ROM:0000053E                 dc.l GM_MainGameLoop    ; 10 - 04
ROM:00000542                 dc.l GM_TitleScreenInit ; 14 - 05
ROM:00000546                 dc.l GM_HowToPlayLoop   ; 18 - 06
ROM:0000054A                 dc.l GM_TopScoreLoop    ; 1c - 07
ROM:0000054E                 dc.l GM_TitleScreenLoop ; 20 - 08
ROM:00000552                 dc.l GM_PlayTypeSelectLoop ; 24 - 09
ROM:00000556                 dc.l GM_WarningLoop     ; 28 - 0a


The only one I can't identify is loc_3A26. This gets called when you select 1P Mode, but changing to it crashes the game.
This post has been edited by evilhamwizard: 08 December 2018 - 08:38 PM

#296 User is offline RyogaMasaki 

Posted 09 December 2018 - 01:17 AM

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Curses, you beat me to the good stuff. Nice finds though! I'll see if I can 'fix' some if it when I get back.

This is also not the first time a C2 game has used nonstandard, unemulated inputs for debug controls
This post has been edited by RyogaMasaki: 09 December 2018 - 01:17 AM

#297 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 09 December 2018 - 01:59 PM

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It's playable.

#298 User is offline Andrew75 

Posted 10 December 2018 - 11:37 AM

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Ok so we probably all noticed backgrounds from or similar to Sonic 1 being used in the game, Makes one wonder if perhaps some of the graphics in this game were early prototype graphics from sonic 1. maybe some we had never seen before.

#299 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 10 December 2018 - 01:40 PM

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Well, Robotnik juggles a set of all-blue Chaos Emeralds like those in GG Sonic 1, so there's that.

#300 User is offline Pengi 

Posted 10 December 2018 - 02:43 PM

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View PostNaean, on 08 December 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

As I was listening through the soundtrack you provided, track 85 caught my attention almost immediately, in that (to me, at least) it has more than a passing resemblance to an unused music track from Sonic Jam.

I've put together a quick-ish audio comparison video, starting off with a rough mashup, followed by comparing segments of each track side by side. I also slowed down the SegaSonic Bros. track to match the speed of the Sonic Jam track.



To be fair, there are some points where they don't match up well (The mashup portion clashes pitch-wise.), and both tracks have significant differences to be sure, yet at the same time, they feel quite similar to me.

Is it just me? Am I the only one hearing a big similarity with this? ^o^


Oh, cool! Earlier in the thread, I noted how track 85 had similarities to the Sonic Jam credits song. I'd completely forgotten about the unused song, and now I'm even more convinced. The unused Jam song is sort of a connective tissue between the two.

Sonic Jam's composers were Masaru Setsumaru and Kenichi Tokoi. According to the wiki, it was Setsumaru who composed the staff roll song (not sure where the info of who composed each song came from). The wiki also says that he was the composer for Sonic Eraser. So that's certainly something.

View PostICEknight, on 10 December 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

Well, Robotnik juggles a set of all-blue Chaos Emeralds like those in GG Sonic 1, so there's that.


Yeah, that seems too specific to be a coincidence.

We know that 8-bit Sonic 1 had some scrapped elements from the 16-bit version, like Sonic singing, and the basic idea of the final boss (and unused turrets).

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