SCAA discussion

And this is why people should watch recent wiki changes.

http://scaa.segadev.co.uk/

 

And this is why SOTI and I are somewhat angry. People aren't going to do things themselves that involves changing springs et cetera anymore. Just damn, why?

EDIT: Also, Glowing Cocks theme

 

Springs are all- I specifically made a point of using my own art for other things, like monitors. I made springs, but they failed hard. So...

 

SCAA was around before, it caused no problems. Except for noobs that just used all their art from SCAA. Like most of the crap that was from SSMB.

 

The SCAA is a good resource but some hacks entirely depended on these changes, if you wanted to make a good hack you'd at least modify some or make your own. Nice work on the background though.

 

I was always under the influence that the SCAA was a good resource for people new to the scene, but it also forced people to be more creative if they wanted their hack to stand out of the crowd.

 

No. What it did result in was every single hack having bad palette changes, badly edited layouts up to the Green Hill Zone S-tube, the Sonic CD buzzbomber, the Sonic 3 HUD, Sonic 2 springs, Sonic 2 prototype snail for Motobugs, and Sonic 2 Choppers, all topped off with horribly ported music and every tutorial applied from the SCHG How-to:Guide section.

Every since the SCAA went down, I noticed a tremendous increase in originality and redeeming aspects of new up-and-coming hacks. I am confident that any incarnation of the website that is contrary to the plan I initially proposed to DNXDelta about moving it on the wiki with the proper restrictions will be nothing short of detrimental to the quality of hacks that are produced from this community. That is—and always has been—my firm belief.

If you want to go and just slap SCAA art on everything, then just go ahead; I can't stop you. It's not doing you any favors, though—that's for damn sure.

 

As long as people don't take screenshots of JUST art that's been taken from the SCAA, then it's fine, it was just when people used the art from the SCAA and that was it, SCREENSHOT SCREENSHOT SCREENSHOT of every bit of art and no other changes. If someone had made other changes themselves and used the SCAA art, then there isn't a problem there, right?

Also, like JcFerggy said, it also has a reverse effect as well, people are forced into making their own art if they don't want to be bogged down with the same old hacks, I for one know that since that's what I did when I was making a hack.

 

Right; if there's a reason that originality seemed to spring forth after that point it was probably because the people who would be making such hacks didn't have any real starting point. The most is maybe ripping art from a different game and putting it in a hack.

People who kept hacking when the SCAA was down probably have enough talent and experience that they won't abuse it now that it's back up. While there certainly are people who would abuse it regardless those hacks rarely get much attention and are quickly filtered away to insignificance, though the people working on the hacks may gain some familiarity and experience such that they'll be better-skilled in terms of making one that has more originality, now that they know how everything works.

In other words, this and the tutorials allow people to become familiar with what the hell is going on, and not necessarily make a hack that will wow people. From there they gain the ability to become more comfortable with what's going on and eventually produce more interesting and skillful hacks.

I wonder what Salvador Dali's very first paintings looked like...

 

No, there's still a problem, because an overwhelming majority of people who use the SCAA don't use it for legitimate purposes. This is why I had brainstormed selective access the last time I talked to DNXDelta about the archive; this way you can personally review every person who has access to the archive and determine whether or not their hack warrants proper use of the SCAA art.

If they don't like being content-controlled, then they should put forth the effort and do it themselves. Conversely, people who have hacks that have proven they're not lazy as all hell have no problem getting the art they need. It's a win-win situation!

It really, really doesn't have the reverse effect. Apparently you don't go on YouTube and the millions of other forums where people steal content and put in little-to-no effort, and are somehow widely praised as creative geniuses. You could argue that they're insignificant and that I should ignore them; I argue that it's an absolute insult to people who do put in the proper time and effort to get the results they desire.

I've gone through this debate more than once, and it always ends up the same. The SCAA promotes laziness and an utter lack of creativity unmoderated—that's the bottom line. It was better off gone.

 

Wouldn't this whole discussion be better off in its own thread?

Also: I made a conscious decision not to abuse the SCAA- I replaced springs; that's all. Everything else is either as it originally was, or is custom/hand-ported. I TRIED to replace the springs myself, too; the ones I made sucked.

 

I'd also like to have this SCAA discussion split off since Tweaker has brought up a good argument with the types of people using the resource. I'd love to hear if anyone has ideas of somehow getting some sort of Validation system going on the site so I can see people using it for Legitimate reasons and not just because they are lazy or just doing a crappy "Art from the SCAA and that's it." hack. I just don't have any ideas how someone could prove if they need the resource for a legitimate reason or not, hence why I'm open to ideas.

 

You had a message board set up before you obtained the backup from Shadow Fire, you could use that instead of the classic method being used right now. That's as best as you'd get though, since the method that was going to be used on Sonic Retro (Members only content) would be out of the question.
Sorry for derailing your topic, Afti.

 

The only problem though with using a forum, is that there is nothing to discuss really, unless I add generic Sonic discussion sections. That was another reason why I choose to have a website instead.

 

You could have course, cut off access to several parts of the site to users who have logins and passwords. There's easy scripts that allow you to do it, and it stops it from being a dead forum. Perhaps, they could join the forum and if they are approved after asked for what they're going to use it for they could get access.

 

A forum isn't a very wise idea; it's not good for organization, and I didn't particularly like how annoying it was to access art through it before.

Rather, I think the website approach is fine, but it should be mandatory to send in a request for the art you wanted if you wanted it when accessing the page. The images for the art would be plastered with a watermark or downscaled so the pictures couldn't be saved and imported using SonMapEd or something, and you wouldn't get access to the raw art files until you were approved after sending in a request for use. You'd do this by sending an email to one of the website maintainers or having a small forum used to present a case.

The point here is to make it annoying as hell to be able to be able to use the SCAA art you wish unless you're entirely competent and have a good reason to opt out of simply ripping the art you want yourself from other resources. Not only that, but you'll know who's using what art and in what hack they're using it, so there's little chance of anyone snagging art and refusing to credit or something like that.

For clarity, the process would go something like this:

1. Go on pages with watermarked/downscaled/whatever art
2. Pick art you want
3. Send email/make topic on forum to request art, presenting case
4. Approve/Deny

Pretty simple process, and it takes arguably less effort than simply going out and ripping the art you want yourself. In any case, it makes the process significantly less straightforward, which is the entire point—it should not be something you can just can just up and do and be like "hey, look at how cool my hack is!!"

 

I would support that approach, with one extra caveat. You get a maximum of three pieces of art. That way, it's a way to patch one's deficiencies, rather than free art.

 

The SCAA is a rather useless little site really. All it does is encourage lazy people to use lazy graphics to make a lazy hack. I could maybe see a purpose if there was original artwork on the site, but it's all artwork taken from other games. Theres a difference between providing a tool to learn from and a tool that makes people lazy.

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for life.