I think one of the main problems...

Yes, and the best example of that is certainly Lava Reef zone.
I noticed this difference since the beginning of the Advance series.

Anyway, you can't say that all new games levels are using the same gimmicks, and are boring because of that. Some of these levels are really unique. Let's go have a look at some games:
Sonic Advance 1: Egg Rocket zone...
Sonic Advance 2: Techno Base zone...
Sonic Advance 3: Chaos Angel zone...
On a side note, these levels are considered to be ones of the best of the new Sonic Advance series, aren't they?

 

Of course true greatness comes when the whole game is gimmicky (Megaman, Ocarina of Time, NiGHTS, Ikaruga).

 

Sega had it right with the Adventure games. I don't know why they made Heroes (and Shadow) so different.

 

I call it landmarks. You are right. I made a thread at A51 a year ago explaining them:
http://ssonicnet.com/area51/forums/index.php?showtopic=92

 

Actually, I was going to post a topic sort of relating to this

I agree with this. In fact, I think it's the "feel" that seems to be lost. It's almost as if sonic was simply meant to be on Genesis because it doesn't have the same "feel" on the GBA.

In fact, the level design in sonic advance seems to be placed out pretty nicely to me. I've always wondered what would happen if someone made a hack that consisted of sonic advance 1's level design, but used the genesis sprites and gimmicks in place of the advance. For Casino Paradise Zone, you could use Casino Night, for Ice Mountain use Ice Cap, Neo Green Hill -> Green Hill, etc.

As Sonic Hachelle-Bee said though, there were a few new ideas in the advance games, so these probably wouldn't fit in with the genesis style gameplay (like Egg Rocket wouldn't really work out in the genesis games).

It'd be pretty interesting to test out such a hack on people, without telling them it's based off sonic advance of course, and asking them if they "feel" it followed in the footsteps of the genesis games.

You can't compare advance 2/3 to the genesis games though as they are new approaches. Sonic Advance was intended to be an ode to the classics, but when fans complained about how slow it was, sonic team kicked it up a notch. This explains why sonic advance 2 is too fast and why many people enjoyed sonic advance 3 since they built it off advance 2

 

I don't get why people like to present that kind of assumptions as facts, this is the kind of stuff the Sonic geeks will try to disprove within 5 years... =|

 

As Taco pointed out, some of the newer generation games seen to reuse old layouts and the feel of the game, but I think that's because Sega is trying to introduce old elements for new generation gamers, but that's my opinion. :yes:

But I think maybe Sega should come up with some new layout or something, somethng that gamers will love and cherish for the rest of their lives.

 

Well Sonic has kinda used all the possible level themes already, so it's gonna be hard for them to come up with fresh ideas. But I agree about this reusing objects thing, they're creating consistancy in the wrong way. In Genesis sonic, the levels felt neat, tidy and consistant, but on the advance games, there's the rails, bouncy things and wierd gimmicky objects and stuff that ruin the whole simplicity of the game. Sonic Advance 1 was the best in my opinion because it had the lowest amount of this stuff.

 

Well I didn't mean to state that as a 100% true fact, but I suppose I did the way I said it :/

I think Sonic Team/Sega has been listening to their fans (Sonic Gems Collection) but the problem is that they have been listening to the immature 10 year old fan boys at the Sega forums (North American/European Sonic Gems Collection).

I remember there was a poll at the Sega boards asking "Who would you like to see star in their own game?" and "What would the name of the game be?"

I wish I saved the results, but I'm pretty sure Shadow won the poll >_>

 

Unfortunately most of Sega's fans ARE immature ten-year-olds.

 

You're right about that one QuickMan, plus some of them can really be demanding at times and that's probably why Sega's newer Sonic games are rushed and not carefully checked for bugs before release, I'm also 21 by the way. Thanks for bringing that up though, really needs to be looked into.

Anyway, the game making decision should really be up to Sega to decide, as they're the ones who made Sonic games since Sonic 1, but that's just what I think, so everyone might not agree about it, especially immature 10 year olds. :P

But that's just me! :D

--------------------

*Continues to use Hauppauge WincastTV for XP to play Sonic Gems Collection for Gamecube*

 

As someone said:
My parents played Sonic 1 and enjoyed it.


That even apply to me. My step mother played Sonic 1 when I was little.

 

that's how I got into Sonic. My grandfather originally bought it.

 

As I've said before, the problem I had was with Sonic Heros. The game appeared to be slopily done, perhaps it was a rushed game. The engine itself was, to me, too sensetive on the controls, and the cinematics engine was crap, I also found the level design to be abismal. I played the Advance series on my pc and I didn't find them bad, then again, after Sonic Heros, anything is better :P

 

What I believe to be the top two problems with the new 2D Sonics:

As LOst put it, landmarks.

The other?

No speed bumps.

This is what I believe to be one of the biggest secrets to good 2D Sonic level design. Slow Sonic down when there is danger ahead. In Sonic 1 GHZ, for example, right before a rotating spike log, there is a rock to stop you and let you see the spikes and react in time. In Sonic 2 EHZ, there are ramps to slow you down before running into piranhas. In Sonic 3 AIZ, right before you run into a rhinobot, there are spikes to stop you from running into the badnik. You don't get frusterated with taking cheap hits as the game shows you ahead of time, and give out playing.

Unlike Advance games. Whenever they stop you, it's not to let you adapt to your surroundings, it's because spikes are going to pop out from under you in half a second.

 

The problem with speedbumps is mostly a problem in Sonic Advance 3 when they try to get you to combine SA2's Speed with SA1's strategy and raw platforming skill. Only a couple parts in SA2 had the speed = death issue. Sonic advance 1, however was TOO slow, and had too much of an emphasis on platforming skill, which is rather un-sonic. Gimme some more loops.

When Mario went 3D the focus was the platforming skill. When Sonic went 3D they opted to use Sonic's theme of speed rather than platforming, as per Sonic's "personality."

 

Story anyone?
If I only know the story of Sonic Advance, or Sonic Advance 2.

 

Sonic isn't about speed, it's about using momentum to overcome the levels.

 

Which is why the whole point of Super Sonic is going faster than Sonic.

Sonic is about speed.