I mean, I'm pretty lenient on that debate, at least for SMB2 and 3 (No love for World at all): Mario is the purest of platformers, and what those games lack in spectacle or variety, they more than make up for in density with some brilliant design and satisfying mechanics that do a much better job of challenging (i.e. engaging) the player. Purely on the basis of gameplay, if someone wants to argue that Mario is a better base game, I think they might be right, even if I don't feel that way. But if we're judging these games on the sum of their parts, it shouldn't even be up for debate. Sonic was visually and technically superior at a glance, Sonic was the franchise with the composers who went platinum, Sonic was the character with appeal enough to thrive in markets well beyond games. It's heartbreaking that we still need to explain this to people, but Mania has a chance to settle it for good. There still isn't very much competition for it in the 2D sphere, honestly.
....You misunderstand. The trailer runs at the framerate of the 2D animated segments. That's why it's different from the announcement trailer which had no animated segment.
I think Mario and Sonic are completely different styles of games, despite both being platformers. It's pretty hard to compare them since Mario focuses on tightly designed platforming challenges while the best levels in Sonic focus on speedrunning through larger levels and finding the optimal route through. The are both amazing series though. What's up with the hate on Super Mario World too? SMW is an absolutely amazing game. I think there are certain ways SMW was superior to Sonic 2. SMW was longer and with more secrets and such than Sonic 2. However, as has been pointed out, Sonic 2 was far more impressive visually and technically than SMW. I'd also say that SMW probably had more consistently excellent level design than Sonic 2, but the base mechanics in Sonic 2 were far more complex than the simple design of SMW. Both have also aged with outdated design philosophies. SMW had the stupid 'die too many times and revert a few stages' while Sonic 2 had no save feature. I'd say they are equal in the quality department. Well, until the shift to 3D, but we all know that.
Go listen to Sonic Adventure 1's Eggman theme. That style seems to be the source of inspiration for the Hard Boiled Heavies theme.
I don't like it either. Too pompous while not vile enough. (but then, Eggman was posed like that ever since)
I'm happy to see re-used zones, art, sounds. After two decades of no real Classic sonic games its nice to delve back in with a feeling of familiarity. And the stuff they have to use is top notch and deserves to shine for more than one game.
One could argue the Sonic games had more unique content though. 2D Mario games reuse the same assets over and over again to make more levels. Like Sonic could have more levels too if each level had 15 acts to it and the same 3 tracks played through the entire game.
You have to define 'content' here. More levels and playtime, for sure, by far. But as others have said, Sonic games had a much wider variety of art assets, unique gimmicks, etc. This is also content. Maybe Sonic could have stages with 4 or 5 acts to be longer, but I don't know if that would necessarily be something positive for the game - I bet most people wouldn't like it. (I kinda would, by the way.)
Sonic was a better built world in terms of branching paths, exploration, and just feeling more like an actual place to visit. It effectively pioneered some of the philosophies behind more open world games today. Mario was better designed in the sense that every aspect had a purpose and each secret was very well thought out. It was a more refined experience, yes, and World easily beats both Sonic 1 and 2 in terms of scope and scale. S3&K though is superior in both technicality and design IMHO. Much less repetition (new song for every act!) A different variety of visuals, tons of branching paths for multiple characters (something Mario never even came close to doing in 2D), and the paths have more distinctive sets of rewards (better shields, giant rings, ect. ect.) SMW is a far better built platformer as far as exploration goes than 3, even if 3 has some really clever rewards. And no doubt SMW is a massive, massive game if you try to 100% it, but I still find S3&K more rich and rewarding to play, and yes, I have no problem counting the titles as one experience as neither is truly the same game when separate. Early 90s physical DLC concept be damned. Personally, I like Super Metroid more than 2D mario titles, while Mario's greatest strenghts are in his absolutely phenomenal 3D games. Odyssey is something I look forward to almost as much as Mania right now.
Loving the 32 bit look of those Special Stages, low-poly 3D models and all. The Sonic Spinball skidding sound effect was kind of an odd choice, though, I don't think it fits with the Sonic CD SFX and SoJ-based visuals. Blue Sphere as a Bonus Stage looks more annoying than anything, I think most people will be skipping them or losing on purpose when entered accidentally. It may have been better to have it as an extra minigame and keep the Sonic & Knuckles mechanic for different "power up" or "ring gathering" stages, depending on how many rings you had when hitting the Lamp post. + - Also, I'm surprised to read that some people consider Blue Sphere as the best Special Stage, having such clunky gameplay mechanics that clash with Sonic's trademark responsiveness, but to each their own, I guess. He's doing the mad robot walk, which is a thing from now on. =P
My favorite Special Stages in the entire series were the ones in Knuckles Chaotix, but Sonic CD's always came a close second. Never really cared for Blue Spheres. I have a feeling I'm really going to like Mania's special stages.
Mario and Sonic both approach the genre very differently from one another, so I honestly think the constant need to compare the two is silly. Obviously it's the blood of the 90's that made people put the two at each other's throats, and each does have their ups and downs, but Sonic is the antithesis of Mario for a reason. Because the two have very little in common besides running and jumping to a goal. Also Sonic 3&K is one game and you cannot tell me otherwise.
No-one suggested not buying the game because of a handful of trivial graphical issues, or that they'll "break" the game. There are no words to describe how incredibly fucking excited I am to play it, and nothing's going to change that. Not even recycled Blue Sphere layouts. However, that doesn't make the clouds not an issue. In my opinion, a true masterpiece only gets better the more attention you pay to tiny details, and a masterpiece is what I want this game to be. Discovering that the beach in Angel Island Zone's intro cutscene has a wave animation, or that the Sonic 3 special stage colour schemes match the original intended zone order, made me love S3&K all the more. Sonic 3 Complete fixes a lot of equally trivial issues like underwater flames in Angel Island Zone, and the background being too light during IceCap Zone's opening, and I adore those changes too. I don't think that Mania exists because of this kind of nitpicking, but it is the case that Mania exists as a product of key members of a fanbase for which this kind of nitpicking is a common pastime, and that they never would've had the opportunity to make an official game if they didn't care about small details all those years ago. Maybe the Mania team members think this is just a ridiculous nitpick coming from a bedroom internet complainer, but I'm still part of the "Mania" this game is made for :v:/> I may be in the minority here, but I'm quite confident that this game will surpass S3&K. The level design, judging from all the gameplay footage I've watched over and over, is actually a significant step up from S3&K, and all the levels seem to have more unique and creative gameplay elements. The music, art and animation quality are all in a completely different league, the special stages look like they'll be much more fun, and we probably won't get nearly as many shit bosses. It looks like every zone will have completely different backgrounds between acts now (*cough* Carnival Night, Mushroom Hill, Flying Battery). Plus, we're getting Time Attack, most likely Boss Rush, properly made co-op/competition modes and who knows what else. The drop dash seems better than the insta-shield when it comes to balance. Everything about Mania seems to be a genuine improvement over S3&K, and the presence of old zones doesn't have a significant impact on that. The new Chemical Plant 1 is a perfect example of how a zone with significant flaws can be revised into something downright amazing by people who know what they're doing. I think the new versions of the old zones will supercede the originals for a lot of people, especially those who don't really play the classics anymore.
Traditional Western Animation (all types of 2D animation that's drawn really) are usually done in 2's which converts to 24fps. What happens after that are some production tricks. The old school way is usually every fourth frame is repeated to make 30fps. Let's say you want the animation you're talking about to be 60fps. That's going to be a problem. Why? Because then if you convert the 30fps animation to 60, it will be either super choppy (by repeating frames to 4's which aren't meant to be taken that way), really awkward or too fast. If you want it drawn 1's then it's going to take a lot longer to deliver, and thus much more expensive to make. I don't think that they have Disney type bank accounts over there at Service Games.
Off topic but... I had a dream last night that the tokens from the Blue Sphere stages unlocked the Chaotix... but only IN the Blue Sphere levels. I remember something about Amy too but I don't know what. ... Just thought I'd share. :specialed:
Finally got around to pre-ordering my copy - so excited to finally get hands-on with this game. Really looking forward to seeing the full extent what the team's put together. Only 10 days to go...! = D
I have to say that I've seen this (people going "huh? what's this? green hill looks the same? is this an emulator?") when the first gameplay trailer came out (the one showcasing GHZ1 and Studiopolis 1) and I have to agree that it was a bit unfortunate for a first impression. I get that the game is designed to be a "niche" game and it made sense to show a remastered, redrawn GHZ to people that would appreciate it, but I think it has a good chance of selling well beyond its "niche" too. Here's to hope the reviews are glowing and that attracts people that would have otherwise ignored it. Heresy! :specialed: I absolutely adore the blue spheres personally, I couldn't be more stoked for their return. They are clunky, but what I like about them is that they can be mastered; if you are good at them you have a shot at beating a new layout that you haven't seen before on the first try or very few tries, even if it's a hard one. That's unlike Sonic 2's half-pipe stages where the hardest ones you had to memorize them by playing a million times before you could beat them. But I dunno, I guess that's something very subjective.
