Sonic 3 Complete

My solution (if possible) would be for Sandopolis to open with Sonic still hanging onto the Flying Battery, then letting go.

 

Thanks for the Sonic 3 alone level layout in Sonic 3, I really wanted that.

Thank you! Thank you! :D

For me the best option is to keep the changes the most simple possible, it need to feel just "Complete" not different.
But that's maybe just me.

The cuteness made of the S&K tittle screen is wonderful, fit's there like a glove.
The Tails appearing just before just, feel unnatural, he goes down in a linear fashion, try make him go from the side in a curve or something.

I didn't play it yet using Sonic & Tails (Just Sonic Alone), but for the posts I assume it's same way like in S3 alone.
For me bringing Tails was the best for Co-op reasons, as I already said,(I the wiki it's says that you can play it if you have the 2p use the controller, thanks) but if you really want him not going, just make him stop and stand back to not making him go to the water. (At the Launch Base's end)

Bringing The Flying Battery to the original position, is a nice idea.
For the transitions, Carnival to Battery use the one that it's on Mushroom Valley(Hill) after the Doctor hit tree.
Battery to Ice, just keep at it is, works great.

I think with Knuckles is more complex, because of the teleporter, maybe just left the retail order for him, if possible.
Not a bad touch, with Sonic you play Flying battery at night and Knuckles in the day.

Mushroom to Sand, to keep it simple as I said up there, just use the wind, from the knuckle's wind trap in the beginning of the act to avoid removing the falling into the sand moment.
I know that it seems simple and maybe lazy, but transitions like Hidrocity to Marble, or the Carnival to Ice, are just like this style, I say follow this style.

Oh and just one thing, in the Knuckles intro, make him walk into the original starting position, he's too far in the Left now.
Just some sugestions :P

 

I hate to jump on the IDEAS bandwagon, but how about making the bomber in Angel Island Act 2 look like the Flying Battery?

 

I second that, as the Sonic 3 manual specifically says that it's the Flying Battery.

 

Sorry to ask, but how do I get this cutscene to work? I finished LBZ's boss as both sonic and knuckles and ... nothing. What am I doing wrong?

 

More bugs:

-When playing Blue Sphere, if you pause and press B to go back to the title screen then start again, the game pauses itself when the Special Stage has loaded.
-As for the "Iwamodoki doesn't give you points" thing that was from Sonic 3 & Knuckles you could either make him actually give you 100 points when he blows up or you could prevent the "100" sprite that pops out of him from appearing.

 

Derp, working now.

 

I have to agree with everyone is saying that the LBZ -> MVZ cut-scene is a very nice touch and well done :D. I've played the new version through with Sonic/Tails and Knuckles this on a Model 2 Genesis and didn't notice any major bugs.

One strange occurrence I did notice, however, is when playing through ICZ Act 1 with Knuckles. What happens is that when you transform into Super Knuckles, get a lightning shield that attracts rings, and move very fast (to the point where you outrun rings being attracted to you), a glitch appears where ring sprites will continually fly through the screen in a vertical fashion. Sorry that I don't have a screen-shot of this, as I have yet to play through this with an emulator to do so. I know of the level select feature to quickly get there, but is there possibly a way to start the game with all the Chaos Emeralds collected?

This is the approximate point where the glitch starts in the level (the "drop-down" area where Knuckles normally has to glide back and forth to avoid getting hurt ... in super form I just blow past this part and the glitch consistently starts here):


It isn't game breaking or anything, but something to mention nonetheless. I'm not sure if it's present in S3 & K or not, but I don't see it mentioned in any bug lists. Again, the next time I play through will be on an emulator and I will get a screen-shot of the glitch in action.

Also, I have to take the opportunity to jump on the idea bandwagon for moving FBZ to be between CNZ and ICZ. This snippet is from the Wiki:

Based on this logic, I would suggest the following zone transitions for a "quick and dirty" release ... probably what the Sonic Team would've given us:

For Sonic/Tails:
CNZ -> FBZ -- Have the cannon just fire them up to the flying battery by chance -- (nothing the user sees needs to be changed)
FBZ -> ICZ -- They jump out of the flying battery and fall into ice cap -- (nothing the user sees needs to be changed)
MVZ -> SOZ -- There's a drop-off to the right at the end of MVZ. Just have them run and jump off it to land in Sandopolis -- (remove the flying battery scene for Sonic and Tails only, and change what Sonic/Tails do at the end of MVZ)

For Knuckes:
Do nothing. Leave FBZ to be between MVZ and SOZ for Knuckles. The reported reason for the teleporter at the end of CNZ is that he was supposed to skip FBZ entirely. Although, I would only assume that nobody wants to see poor Knuckles getting shafted out of another level . I think having FBZ in a different spot for Knuckles will add some additional variety to the game. Since it is a mobile level that has no critical point in the story-line, it could really be placed anywhere.

Of course the above could always be improved upon (the para-shroom idea is awesome :D). I'm just stating what would probably be the easiest to do and still make enough sense.

 

I was always under the impression the Flying Battery crashed after Eggman blasted it with lasers. Wouldn't it make more sense for it to not be airborne anymore by the time Knuckles' adventure kicks in?

 

This is in S3K, and only requires a lightning shield. What happens is that the ring goes off the bottom boundary of the level, and reappears at the top (because the level is vertically looping). However, because it's now at the "top" of the level, it moves towards the character, who is at the "bottom" of the level. So it accelerates down, misses the character, goes off the bottom boundary, reappears at the top, accelerates down, misses the character, lather, rinse repeat.

It's one of the oldest bugs ever - it's the same bug that allows you to hide in the corner of the screen in Asteroids and shoot the UFO while it can't shoot you.

It's a simple fix, too.

Code (Text):

1. if (abs(diff_y) > $4000)
2.   diff_y+= -$8000 * sign(diff_y);

In 68k ASM, of course.

 

How about Sonic and Tails go to Flying Battery Zone after CNZ, and Knuckles end of act in MHZ can simply be him jumping off the edge of the cliff to a buried FBZ.

Although this would mean Sonic and Tails would need a new end of act cutscene from MHZ to SZ.

 

And Knuckles would need a new background for FBZ.

 

Impertinent question: how much of a trouble would it be to create a patch that would make the miniboss music play for the remainder of the stage after encountering Knuckles at Hidden Palace? I always liked this behaviour from the Sonic 3C prototypes because it's essentially the only time I ever hear the whole song, so it would be something really cool to have. Should be as simple as canceling out the routines that request a music change, no?

 

In my perspective.

I know I said that it should use simple transitions, but in the same way that the LBZ have an new elaborated cut sceen to blend in the action and plot better with the game, used from S&K tittle screen.
Why not use, what we already have in Mushroom V./H. Zone? It's such a waste not to use that, against, well a canon.

And the part after (and in) the MV(H)Z boss, looks like it's on the ground level.
Just pointing out.
(And also ignoring the background in LBZ, which it's isn't know for sure if it's MVZ there, and Sand there, but that's not important I think.)

---

About FBZ in knuckles story

Burring it or put it on the ground level, should be avoided, the level itself would have to suffer some changes for it, like the propellers.
And which background to use? Recycle one? Use a costume one? None of them seems a good idea.
And the transition from the boss to the next level? More Problems
I think should feel an "Complete" experience not a different one (I know I already said this 100 times, sorry.)

For plot reasons, it should be removed, the ship was destroyed by the Doctor playing with lasers inside of it (again) by the looks of it.
Death Egg was destroyed too, and the same thing happens.
Also the level have no specific knuckles sections to my knowledge, supporting the claim that it was to be absent from his story.

For game play reasons, it should stay, comparing with Sonic, while Knuckles is like a "hard" World B/ Quest B, as already pointed out, it lacks a Complete Zone the Death Egg , Hidden palace just serves as a bridge, Sky it's just serves as a Final Boss/Boss for the last complete Zone that didn't have one, and less other boss.
So one more Zone, that in fact was already tweaked with an extra Eggrobo, doesn't hurt.

We play Sonic games, not watch the plot unfold alone, so it should stay like it is already now, in my opinion.
(Anyway it's a machine, it can be repaired, can it? :P)

The shots aren't mine, and the optional patches, now super easy to apply EVEN before the download, makes it very likable for every player of this hack, so yeah... XP

But hey if it's stays like it is right now, in Sonic/Tails story whatever... it's fine too, nothing lost or gained by that anyway.

 

Oh god yes that song made that level feel so much more awesome in the 3C prototype

 

Wouldn't it be easier if we pretend like Robotnik, or Eggrobo... or maybe some other robot (Mecha Sonic?) was in charge of repairing Flying Battery in case it were to crash, and Robotnik wasn't around?

At least I've always thought of it like Flying Battery Zone entered "Critical Mode" after Robotnik fired the lasers.

What really needs to be fixed, IMO (which I'm certain has been mentioned before) is changing Robotnik's sprite into Egg Robo's sprite in Knuckles Story, FBZ Act 2.

 

Already been changed.