Sonic 3 parts 1 and 2 - Sonic 2 Part 2?

Quick critique of this theory, in my own opinion. =P

Hidden Palace was originally Sky Sanctuary 1 in name, looking at the Sonic 3C prototypes, and to be honest isn't very similar at all to the S2 Hidden Palace - Lava Reef looks more like S2's HPZ, and even that has a very different feel to it.

Visually they're nothing alike aside from the presence of sand - they're both very different types of desert. Not knowing what gameplay functions were intended for the desert Zone makes it impossible to judge whether these influenced the concepts for Sandopolis.

We know nothing about Rock Zone save that the "Banper" badnik was intended to be in it at one point, and that it was the 'past' of the desert Zone. I fail to see how it's possible to make this connection.

Both do have a similar sort of setting (bright foreground, dark background with neon lights), but it's not all that similar-looking, and the gameplay isn't very Casino-Night inspired. The presence of bumpers in both Zones is about the most similar thing I can think of in terms of gameplay.

(See desert Zone / Sandopolis comparison). Also, we've never seen the artwork for the winter Zone, so it's impossible to judge if Ice Cap could have been at least visually inspired by it.

Okay, they both feature trees, but that's about as far as it goes. And in Mushroom Hill, most of the trees are in the far background except for the end of the Act 2 boss, compared to Wood Zone being set entirely on giant trees. No conveyor belts in Mushroom Hill either, which is the single gameplay function that we know was intended for Wood Zone from looking at the Wai prototype.

Both are mechanical (from looking at the Cyber City concept art), both feature lasers of some description. No spin tubes in Death Egg though, which there do appear to be in Cyber City's art. Still, there's some similarity there I guess.

So yeah, in my opinion it's a good idea, but on close inspection there aren't really that many similarities. Feel free to counter-critique or point out any glaring errors I've made in my reasoning - if something I say has been proven wrong then please tell me. = )

 

I think I have read several times that most of the stuff and the ideas that didn't do it for Sonic 2 were somehow recycled for Sonic 3, but I don't think it goes further than that.

 

I was almost gonna post this. I was thinking the same thing about the same zones as you said except I didn't think about Casino Night Zone and instead of "Genocide City" - Death Egg, I was thinking "Cyber City" - Flying Battery, forgetting how the Sonic 3 Death Egg is. I wasn't thinking they were replacements exactly but just that the general idea got used.

 

I think a Genocide City/Flying Battery comparison is a little more fair. With flame-throwers and such non-sense, the place is clearly designed as a death-trap. And I'm betting a name like "Genocide City" implied a similar idea for that particular beta level.

 

Death Egg: "Where we're going, we don't NEED spin tubes"


I see where the theory is coming from, but generic level designs have been recycled since the dawn of the platformer. It's only natural to use unused things from one game in another though. I personally think that "Sky Sanctuary Act 1" was just a place holder and was never intended as an official name...because it's obviously underground, not in the sky. It took them a couple seconds to realize it was ok to make a Lava Reef Act 4 slot....why they don't call it Hidden Palace in the level select, we'll never know...maybe. I find Mushroom Hill/Valley more intersting than any plain old "Wood Zone." Deserts are in many places and Egypt is more interesting than Arizona. Icecap Zone sounds cooler than "Winter Zone." I think if any of the ideas WERE to be recycled, they were retooled during the process as well sinc ethey had more time to make the levels LESS boring.

It wasn't enough that the Death Egg fell once in Sonic 2; they made it fall twice within the same game with S3(&K)! But that's assuming it fell again after The Doomsday because of no more Master Emerald power. Just when we thought we'd never see anything like it again, it's Predecessor, the Space Colony ARK comes on the Scene. Gerald was smart and his grandson is a dumbass.

 

I don't know... Flying Battery is more like a remake of Metropolis, mixed up with Wing Fortress' outside parts.

But then again, Genocide City could have been Metropolis-like regarding hazards and stuff. From what I understood after reading some interview and Yuji Naka's comments in the Sonic Jam guide, it could have been actually the original third act of Metropolis, before they changed the story (and possibly had the idea of going to the Death Egg from the Wing Fortress and all that).



Sonic 3 indeed feels a lot like what Sonic 2 would have been with a different team (and more advanced technology) behind it, level concepts, scrapped stuff and all.

 

Probably the only thing that comes remotely close to saying Sandopolis Zone was influenced by Desert Zone in terms of functions is something Craig Stitt stated ages ago in ICEknights Interview with Craig Stitt. He recalls a function that would have most likely occurred in the concept level Desert Zone.

Even then, it's not enough to make the "Sandopolis Zone was influenced by Desert Zone" idea valid. And there's no other evidence to support the idea aside from there being sand as you mentioned already McAleeCh. But thought I'd bring this up still at least.

 

Not a new theory by any stretch and I DO agree that s&k had mirrors of the sonic 2 lost levels

MHZ = WZ
FBZ = CCZ / GCZ
SZ = DZ
LRZ / HPZ = HPZ
SSZ = ?!? (reference to Sonic 1 and 2 bosses here.. just an odd level in general)
DEZ = DEZ with more than just a boss

 

Its pretty much my understanding that when the level designers sat down to make the art for sonic 3, they looked at the concept art and level art from previous games for inspiration and the like. It's part of the creative process.

 

DEZ(S3&K) is obviously just DEZ(S2) with more acts and cooler stuff. And FBZ has a GCZ/CCZ feel to it. However I fail to see this alleged MHZ and WZ connection, sure there are trees in the background and its in a forest (somewhat) but to me that's like saying AIZ is inspired by WZ, MHZ is a GHZ/EHZ style level, or at least that's what I think. Oh, and the other comparisons seem valid as well.

 

Hey guys, guess what I just found out! The levels in Sonic Spinball are the levels that STI guys came up with for S2 that got cut!

(I mean seriously, just pour a bunch of toxic slime into Hidden Palace and what do you get?)

 

That would explain why The Machine is so similar to the concept artwork of Genocide/Cyber City?

 

Unless you're being sarcastic, I thought it was known for awhile now that Toxic Caves uses background tiles based on the Sonic 2 Hidden Palace. I hadn't made the connection with the other Spinball levels, though.

 

Yeah, that was pretty sarcastic overall.

 

My sarcasm detector must be faulty. Sorry about that.

 

Ice Cap?