Sonic Dream Team (New 3D Game from Hardlight, coming to Apple Arcade December 5)

I've watched through the main missions of all of Zone 1 and Act 1 of Zone 3 and this looks...serviceable. Level design seems to have adequate branching paths and I saw the player fling themselves between areas over bottomless pits at certain points rather than using the rails to get around and I appreciate that choice, but the level design doesn't seem to do anything particularly interesting. Not really getting the "this is the best 3D Sonic game since Generations" vibe that some people are putting out over this.

Also I really loathe Knuckles and Rouge only being able to climb designated walls. Final Horizon obviously does this too and it just feels so cheap and railroaded when there are so many other ways to show players the intended approach without restricting the ability like that.

 

The game feels amazing to play with each character. The controls feel great with controller support. There’s so much to explore in each stage. You cannot just watch a video to understand how good this game is. You have to experience it. It does not play like adventure and it does not play like Frontiers (could not be further from the truth). We’ve never had a 3D game like this. The replayability is up there with Generations minus the 2d sections. You can explore every level with all 3 play styles. When you unlock each set of characters, go back and do the previous stages you’ll see so many things you have not seen before. The boss fights are fun. The voice acting is not perfect and the story is basic but I don’t think that is what Hardlight was aiming for. They wanted to show they can make a Sonic game with replay value.

It’s too bad this is an Apple Exclusive. Some people will never get to experience it.

 

I’ve only played the first three acts, but so far, I’m liking it!

Gameplay impressions: It’s a mobile game for kids, so I think you need to have the right expectations. But I am so far very impressed with the amount of thought that has gone into the level design.

The levels feel like SA stages, but they have branching paths, and while these paths are perhaps simplistic, they stop the level from feeling like you are running down a corridor.

The stages also have half pipes on the side where you can perform tricks, which again removes that corridor feeling.

In the second act, you have to hunt for keys. It’s a bit like the Knuckles SA stages, as you loop over the level, but it’s more streamlined as the level design organically directs you where to go so you aren’t aimlessly wandering.

The game doesn’t work that well with touchscreen controls, but thankfully if you die, you go back to where you were. I’ve not yet tried a controller.

I wish the interface was better. Mobile games are supposed to be things you dip in and out of. But here every time you come back, you have to skip the intro and then load up your save file with multiple taps. Hard Lights other mobile games are much better at letting you quickly resume.

Plot impressions: Less impressed with this. (Very Minor spoilers) + - There’s too much over-explaining, and Sonic having to rescue his friends again, is annoying. It’s a dream, so I don’t know why the friends couldn’t just pop up during the adventure. I’m sure Sonic’s pals don’t all go to bed at the same time, and it would be a natural way to explain their appearance than having yet another rescue plot.  

 

Did you skip the first cut scene?

 

No. Sorry, but I don’t quite follow your point......

+ - Although when I say it's a dream, and they could have just fallen asleep and appeared at different points in the adventure, that's just how I think the story would work better. I know that's not the actual plot, and they've taken a different track. But I feel their approach is needlessly convoluted and just ends feeling like yet another rehash of Generations/Frontiers "rescue the kidnapped pals" plot (complete with ghosty states). Given that the story revolves around a dream theme, there are better ways of approaching the story which wouldn't end up being so convoluted or repetitive as what we just had in Frontiers  

 

Me playing this game:
"Heh, people must be exaggerating how bad Rouge and Cream Voices are, surely they are not that different from other characters or their old voices"

*hear them in-game*

"oh......."

 

been playing through the game since I'm lucky enough to own an iphone and free trial of apple arcade. It's fun! It's really not Adventure 3 but it's more like the cyberspace levels from Frontiers but with better controls and design.

one thing I'll immediately praise is that this game has 360-degree mid-air turning, the very thing that I gave Frontiers so much shit for not having.
https://i.imgur.com/sGk8syJ.gifv
This is in every 3D platformer nowadays, I can't believe Sonic Team are so behind the times with this.

The gameplay flows really well, light dash is fun to pull off and doesn't kill all your speed like in Frontiers. Wall running is really satisfying and fun, especially compared to wall running in Frontiers which was so weirdly limp and pathetic by comparison.

I know some people hate when you compare games with each other, but you can't help but look at all the ways this mobile game is doing things better than the mainline title released at full price. This game has more creative and forward thinking design than Frontiers.

 

If every other platformer was going to jump off a cliff, should Sonic do it?

 

Jumping off cliffs is possibly the thing Sonic does the most?

 

...?

if every other platformer has adopted a good design choice that actively improves how the game controls, shouldn't Sonic Team make it a priority to pay attention and catch up instead of wallowing behind?

bearing in mind that Sonic Team were actually the first to do this in SA2 and then proceeded to completely throw it out of the window with every 3D game since.

I'm not asking Sonic Team to blindly follow a bad trend, I'm asking them to pay attention. Sonic is already jumping off a cliff.

 

This is honestly unforgivable.

 

This is especially weird considering their gliding range isn't too powerful and the level design is surrounded by bottomless pits so there's no risk it will be broken OP.

 

Eh, SRB2 has been using unclimbable walls to balance their abilities and keep them on more focused paths since Knuckles was added.

The concept of limiting where they can use their abilities in a more traditional linear platformers isn't my favorite choice, but it is a reasonably valid design choice. I don't love it, and the game seems like it's taking it too far, but the feature exists to balance the characters abilities and can make sense when used reasonably well.

 

But SRB2 is the other way around where unclimbable walls are the exception, not the rule. And the couple that do exist in the vanilla maps are at least telegraphed as walls that would be hard to dig your knuckles/heels into. I never gel with this forced contextual Banjo Kazooie crap in platformers and it feels especially inappropriate for Sonic. Not a total dealbreaker for me since it only affects characters I don't love using anyway, but is definitely an unnecessary blunder.

 

Watching playthroughs, Dream Team to me feels like a "jack of all trades" in regards to the level design and its gameplay direction--and in particular, trying to harmonize the Boost 3D gameplay and "traditional" 3D gameplay like a bunch of 3D Sonic fangames try to achieve. People say it's much slower to play/control, but it also has the Boost mechanic to speed things up (and I've read it being compared to Lost World in that regard, where Sonic at his "base" speed is too slow until you use the run button/mechanic). The level design is more open-ended in design to support its collectathon structure; but (in line with most 3D games) the level construction is pretty basic and monochrome; and much of the routes are built around automated mechanics and setpieces (dash panels, springs, rails etc.). Even the collectathon structure itself doesn't feel as freeform as its contemporaries; the missions aren't embedded within the stages themselves as tasks the player can freely pursue (like in Mario and Banjo), they serve as the world's "acts/levels" themselves.

My point for emphasis on the "jack of all trades" descriptor is that for me, Dream Team comes across as a "master of none" in that regard. Much like those fangames, I don't think Dream Team is able to pull off the "hybrid" approach; where I think the more linear/speed-oriented gameplay is held back by the more open-ended/slower structure, and vice versa. But I do think it of course does get the benefit of being an official Sonic release (so it obviously has more resources and was...actually able to see completion); and as far as a studio's first 3D Sonic game goes, you could certainly do worse.

 

Yep if they allowed the power characters to do this IN THIS PARTICULAR GAME, there would be no reason to use anyone else. I do wish they find a way for this to be in future games but for now, it is not bad the way they have it. There are plenty of shortcuts for the power characters but it is limited to make sure people are PLAYING THE GAME. We just got Knuckles back after 18 years so I guess after all that time they are still figuring it out. They want to give Knuckles/Rouge their full climbing abilities but in a way where it does not feel like a modded version of Sonic Adventure.

 

Just put an hour or so into the first zone and boss
Loved the way the boss was designed and animated, a lot of character to it!
Have only played on an iPhone without a controller so far, it’s not terrible, but I’ll judge properly when I use a switch pad.
It’s been fun! Can’t complain

 

I'm only pointing out that the concept does exist for specific reasons, even if the execution may be flawed. It's not "unforgivable" as one user here said, and I don't even like dealing with the unclimbable walls in SRB2 (but they usually exist for a reason).

Frankly, I can't comment on whether or not the execution is flawed because I have 0 means to play this game right now and will probably refuse to do so until it's ported (ugh). I can believe that it is, but it's impossible for me to analyze that without actually exploring the maps personally.

 

Part of the excitement of Tails' flying and Knuckles' gliding and climbing in 3K for me was the freedom that those offered, because they were OP. I understand why they want to balance the OP characters, but I will not forgive.

 

I think people's issue is that it goes against what Sonic players have come to expect from Knuckles' gameplay. Imagine if they made it so that Sonic can only run after using a dashpad, or Tails can only fly from flight pads ala Banjo-Kazooie.