The last straw

No, to deny that is to have an opinion of your own. I'm sure you genuinely dislike the newer games in comparison to the old ones, but that does not make it a universal truth that the new games are "worse." Stop acting like it does, and you'll have a much better argument.

 

That never happened to me in any loop of the game. I have a question for Guess_Who: You have played only the pc version of SADX?

That's untrue. SA2 isn't terribly glitchy. Sonic 2 and S3&K have a lot of more glitches than SA2. The 3d Zelda games have a lot of more glitches too, and they aren't considered "too glichy".

He said that to point that that glitch isn't accesible in normal gameplay (if you only want to beat the level instead of look for bugs, you won't stop on the roof).

 

Oh my god will you SHUT THE FUCK UP FOR ONCE?

How about this: You used to be really cool. Before you were a Tech Member, I saw you as somebody who tried to help the community, despite its "fall." Now you go around bitching at everything. STOP IT. As a friend, I'm obliged to tell you it's fucking annoying and it's hurting your image.

To be on topic, Sonic r0x. Think of how Sonic brought joy to you; stop bitching about how it isn't perfect, because nothing is.

 

Okay. Penis.

All games have glitches, it just depends whether they alter gameplay or not.

Sonic 1 had the spike bug that altered game play. I could go on and on about that.

Sonic Adventure 1/2 had bugs where you fell through the floors sometimes. I could go on and on about that.

However does it really pull away from the game's play quality? I mean, look at Ocarina of Time, that thing had a SHITLOAD of weird glitches that altered gameplay, but that game is could possibly be ranked number one game of all time.

Old doesn't nescarrly mean better. Sure, old gen Sonic had great games...but also just really poorly made games. G Sonic, Sonic Labyrinth...these games just did not do well because of poor gameplay.

New doesn't mean worse either. Sonic Advance 1 and 2 were pretty good games, and Sonic Rush was also good. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were okay, but some of the levels just kind of took away from the classic speed that we all love.

Isn't it all about the speed, people? I think that's it, personally. It seems that the games that had speed issues are the ones that people do not like (at least here).

Classic:

games we love
Sonic 1 was speedy!
Sonic 2 was speedy!
Sonic 3 was speedy!
Sonic and Knuckles was speedy!

games we are ehh about
Sonic Spinball was NOT speedy.
Sonic Labyrinth was definatly not speedy.
Sonic 3D Blast was not speedy.

New:

games we love
Sonic Advance 1 was speedy!
Sonic Advance 2 was speedy!
Sonic Rush was speedy!

games we are ehh about
Sonic Advance 3 was not speedy.
Sonic Heroes was not speedy.
Shadow the Hedgehog was not speedy.

This is from what I can recall anyways =P

I mean when you think about it, what Sonic needs is speed. That's what makes Sonic ..well, Sonic! His speed! "The fastest hedgehog alive!".

We all argue about stupid things like the voices and the songs and lol NEW CHARACTERZ but all I care about is "Is the game good?".

I look at Sonic Riders previews. Sure it has new characters, and sure it is trying to appeal to the EXTREME group of youngsters but man, that game looks fast. I just might try it, hell, I might buy it!

Sonic Riders is slightly different from the other games, but that doesn't nescarrly mean it will take away from it being a good game!

I mean look at Sonic the Fighters. It was a fighting game, sure, but you had to beat the opponent within the timelimit. So you had to be speedy!

Now look at Sonic Battle. Fighting game again, but hell of alot slower. I like the game too but it's doesn't feel like Sonic to me.

I mean, just think about it, okay? =P

 

Hmmm.. Sonic Advance 2 was just speed though. The level design sucked... Sonic Rush, 1, 2 and 3K, in my opinion, all rocked, ad all had great level design.

 

ditto

 

Hmm. Does Heran pay atention to the "We hate Sonic and we hate eachother" thread? Or does Heran go play animal crossing. Decisions, decisions.

I got this great idea. Maybe it's a little crazy.

What if we're all allowed to have our own oppinions on the games, but at the same time, we respect people who have other oppinions because there's no absolute right side to the issue?

 

o.o How come that you classify SAdv3 as "not speedy"? It was fastest than the Genesis games and SAdv1 and so fast as SAdv2. And I don't get how come that a lot of peoples like SAdv2 and not SAdv3. In most of SAdv2 levels, you only have to hold forward and press the jump button some times, so the gameplay was really bored. In SAdv3, you have to run nearly always too, but you have to change of direction a lot of times, jump, avoid obstacles, calculate your jumps, and a lot of things like that. I can understand why some peoples don't like SAdv3 (though I like it), but I don't get why some peoples say that SAdv2 is superior o_o
And why would you want a fighting game or a pinball to be fast as the plattaform Sonic games? O_O

 

It's just not speedy to my recollection. I only played the prerelease and EXTREME MANSECKZ version. It just seemed to slow to me.

I didn't say fast as Sonic Platform Game. =P I said fast in general, because that's what Sonic SHOULD be about.

 

Yea. I respect other's opinions as long as they give examples or justify it somehow. =P

Because SONIC SPINBALL EATS ASS doesn't cut it. Tell us why you think that.

 

It could be "speedy" but the level layout/object placement it really awkward, so it's hard unless you have the level memorized beforehand.

 

That's the reason because I like SAdv3. It's hard. You have to have good reflexes to keep running and advancing without losing the rings or die. I play SAdv3 when I want to play a hard game.

 

Normally this would be fine, but Sonic is running too fast and the GBA has such a small screen. Unless you already know what's ahead. there is not enough time to see it. This combined with the awkwardness of the level/object placement, and the partner system, makes a very bad game.

Not to mention that level art is horribly ugly. :P

***this has been an opinion of rika_chou***

 

Well, to me isn't that hard see what is ahead and never was. And despite what you may think, I think that level design and object placement was intelligently done, because every is designed in a way that you can advance perfectly once you know well the paths. I know it because I can advance through all the level running without being stopped and I rarely am hitted by a enemy or I fall to my doom, because I know the paths. So if one who has become experienced can do that, then the level layout isn't awkward, since it fulfills its purpose (awkard level layout and hard gameplay are very different things). And I like the level art. It isn't great, but it is superior than the art from the other Sonic Advances.

 

I point to one simplistic feature of the old games that's missing from the new ones generally that seems to be totally forgotten: The ability to run up walls, and with a great physics engine to boot. Go play a classic Sonic game and you'll be hard pressed not to come into contact with its awesome physics engine. If you run up a slope, it acts exactly as you would think it would. If that slope would pass 90 degrees and go upside down, you'd stick to the ceiling ONLY as long as you had the momentum to do so. Loops were not cinema scenes, they were an active part of the level, and if you weren't going fast enough you wouldn't make it all the way around. Not only does this physics work beautifully, the player maintains full control throughout. If they want to jump at any time, they can, and it won't cause unpredictable results. Sonic will jump off the ground and continue with whatever inertia he has, acting incredibly naturally.

Now look at the modern 3D Sonic games. They don't have any running up walls that isn't confined to a cinema scene except in rare cases, and in those rare cases, it's so badly done as to render it almost unplayable at times (Pyramid Cave comes to mind). The loops and other running up walls is all done by the patented "hold forward" gameplay design where you simply hold the control stick as far forward as you can and watch as Sonic dazzles you with pretty graphical effects. This creates a great initial playthrough, as the first time through the stage leaves a really good impression, with all the flashy effects. However, replaying the stage isn't nearly as cool, because the player doesn't have any input into any of this, and it's more like an RPG cutscene than an action game. If the player DOES try to interact with the game during these points, he pretty much incurs the wrath of the physics engine, normally resulting in a swift and efficient death, because the game isn't designed with player interaction during the cutscenes in mind.

I don't want a return to the classics. The classics are fine staying in the past. However, they could learn a lot from the classics' physics, and why they succeed. I don't want a removal of any and all relevant plot, like they tried in Sonic Heroes. I LIKED the Sonic Adventure games' plot. I don't want them to remove many of the features added since they made it 3D. However, I do want them to remove all points in the stages where the player can't control. Make it so that if the player wants to, they can jump off the loop, and have it do so realistically and in such a way that it isn't instant death. Heck, if the player wants to, they should be able to ignore the loop and just run through the center area and not go around.

Personally, Sonic Heroes was the last straw for me. I have no problem with their new 2D Sonic games on GBA and DS, and although they do need to fix the "run right into an enemy you can't see" issue, the new 2D Sonic games provide me with hours apon hours of entertainment. However, the 3D games no longer do so for me, and I will not buy a new 3D Sonic game. I have not played Shadow, nor do I intend to. From what I understand, it's Sonic Adventure with guns, and I've got tired of holding forward.

 

Now look at the modern 3D Sonic games. They don't have any running up walls that isn't confined to a cinema scene except in rare cases, and in those rare cases, it's so badly done as to render it almost unplayable at times (Pyramid Cave comes to mind).
Well, that is not true. Believe it or not, you can run through nearly every vertical path in the Sonic Adventures having complete control. You don't believe me? Then play the levels but everytime that you reach a vertical path, don't touch the booster. Instead, use the spindash to run fast facing them, and you will see that you can run through the walls having complete control of the character. Not only that, but in SA1 are a lot of walls in which you aren't supposed to be run, but if you find the part where the floor is "connected" to the wall, you can use the spindash to run through them. Go to the end of the first part Emerald Coast and land in the little plattaform where is the Kikki. From there, use the spindash to run fast (you know, press and hold B, release it and then press B again to run) facing the wall, and you will can run through it having complette control. You can even go to the other side of the wall, and see that there isn't anything. You can try that too in the wall of Mystic Ruins: in the train area, there are points the wall are connected to the floor, and you can use them to run through the walls with complette control, and once you have mastered this, you can even go to the other side of the mountains.
There are other parts in the game with that (even in Station Square). Try it and you will se that you have better control while running through walls than in Pyramid Cave. If you want, I can post a screenshot.

However, replaying the stage isn't nearly as cool, because the player doesn't have any input into any of this, and it's more like an RPG cutscene than an action game.
In Sonic Adventure 2 you can find a lot of things replaying the levels, such as hidden items, lost Chao, the Chao boxes, secret upgrades, the Gold Beetle of the level, and even secret paths. And you can modify a lot the score that you will get by doing the tricks. So the levels of SA2 have a good replayability IMO. And anyway there are a lot of things to do in the Sonic Adventures beside just replaying the levels, as I mentioned in a earlier post.

 

Its like having your cake and eating it at the same time too!

*ahem*, yeah your right. I didn't even read all this crap, I flew past people that wrote more then 4 paragraphs and said "get a life, its just a game". People can think what they think, and do what they want to do.

SONIC HEROES SUCKS! jk

 

That's exactly what I think too. I feel they should rethink the entire gameplay for the 3D Sonics from scratch.


I wonder if Stealth's 3D Sonic project has better physics than Sonic Team's attempts at a 3D Sonic engine.

 

I personally thought that SAdv2 was much better than Sadv3, but I couldn't really put my finger on the reason.

Anyways, I'll go with Tweaker's suggestion and leave the topic now.