Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

I'mma be honest, as someone who likes Origins I don't really think that's true. I think people tend to lose sight of how their tone is perceived online and it can make their comments come across as more hostile than they are, but most of what I've seen in this thread is people getting mobbed when they tell others to not care about the things they care about.

Like, sure, perspective is key. Nobody outside the fandom whom you tell to play Origins is going to hate anything about it that they wouldn't in the originals. But remasters and rereleases of games from thirty years ago should have an easy time getting anything that isn't a brand-new creative choice correct. It's one thing for Amy to not be everyone's cup of tea, because it's hard to get her right. Sonic Advance 2 was the only 2D game to ever do it, and it locked her behind 28 chaos emeralds for some reason. It's something else entirely for SADX's Game Gear collection to be depressingly competitive with Origins Plus twenty years prior.

With Nintendo, plain-ass emulation is the best you're gonna get because they defined seven generations of console games and it's not totally feasible to dedicate all their online services to remaking the entire N64 library to run at 4K 60fps with QOL improvements. But fans hacked into the 8-bit games years ago and got proper resolutions in Triple Trouble. We've had minor improvement mods for Sonic 1 and 2 8-bit for years and adding rings to the bosses or turning off the lives counters, these aren't difficult tasks. Half of these games don't even need other improvements, or else changing them would be radically-different enough that it would make sense not to do it. Probably the only objective improvement I could ask for that would take finagling is adding more inventory space or assigning extra buttons in Tails Adventure, and I still think they could do it if they wanted.

Similarly, the bilinear filter was modded out day-one. Sonic 3's soundtrack was de-muffled day one. The menus were better in the 2013 mobile versions. The S3 replacement tracks were in better shape in 1993. It's not that SEGA has to make the most amazing game ever, but it's not too much to ask that they don't make stupid mistakes in the process, when it's clear to everyone exactly how little it takes to fix them.

 

Please stop sealioning.

 

Im not, people just are being disingenuous. It is true that Origins has awful customisation. No level select for a completed save file, less partner options. The music presentation is a lot worse. UI is different and arguably worse.

But the base games are almost exactly the same now glitches from launch have been patched. People are speaking generally across the fandom as if the base games are completely broken compared to the mobile releases when that isn't true.

 

As neat as that hack is as a fan creation, it still has very prominent graphical glitches, including the game's opening animation. If it was included in Sonic Origins it would be torn to shreds the same way the glitchy day one version of Origins' S3&K was.

 

You act like those things aren't part of the game.

But on top of that, why do I have to play in 4:3 if I want lives? Why can I not play as Knuckles + Tails when I could before? Why are the cheats so awkward to access now?

All of these things are regressions that simply didn't have to happen. And all this for the low, low price of double what you could buy the games for before.

But it's all okay, because you can play it in "hold left to win" mode now.

 

I agree that all those issues are bad and I also have complained about them here.

It just bothers me that people speak as if the actual game handling and core gameplay feel is different when it's not.

 

That's fair, although I haven't seen much of that. The Retro Engine versions have always been off compared to the original, and aside from the removal of the rolljump lock for the drop dash and a couple of very minor tweaks that aspect doesn't seem to have changed.

 

I do think the lack of customisation options is a big problem in Origins. It is especially baffling that there is no Sonic and Amy option.

Speaking of Amy, she's okay, but I'm not really down with the slightly different Sonic approach. I understand why they nerfed her drop dash but it would be more fun if she could keep hitting with her hammer indefinitely.

The lack of her Superstar double jump is unfortunate. I don't feel like she fits in with the other characters because extra Sonic characters all focus on movement and Amy doesn't. This is something Knuckles Chaotix understood.

 

Why are people not allowed to complain about that not being changed? These aren't merely the mobile versions, they're touched up mobile versions. They'll add the drop dash, they'll add Knuckles to Sonic CD, they'll add Amy to all four games, but they won't "simply change the numbers to match the original versions' hitboxes"? I'm no programmer, so I don't know if it's actually this simple, but the point was never contested back when it was posted, so I'm left to assume it would indeed actually be this simple. I'd love for @Harper to have been incorrect here, otherwise it raises questions, such as: did Taxman and Stealth simply not notice that the hitboxes were too big? Did they notice but not know how to fix it somehow? Did they notice but didn't care? Was it a baffling conscious design choice?

None of those possible answers are very comforting, and yes, that's fundamentally a problem with the remakes, and not Origins. But now it's no longer merely a problem with the remakes, it's a problem with Origins, because Origins contains those remakes. Modified versions of those remakes, which didn't modify this part. For some reason. That's fair game for criticism. To be clear, whatever the case I'm glad to finally have the Retro Engine remakes widely available, even with these issues. Goal has been reached. But the fact that this issue has always plagued the Retro Engine remakes doesn't mean people aren't allowed to take issue with that not being fixed. There is nothing disingenuous about this, and if it counts as "moving goalposts", then I guess "moving goalposts" isn't the big deal it's being made out to be.

And, to be clear, this isn't me "telling people who like Origins to shut up", because.....I have enjoyed Origins! I've double dipped on Origins Plus. I'm happy to have this. I think it's a solid collection. I don't know where all of the "people getting mobbed and told to shut up for liking Origins" is happening, but it sure isn't in this thread. If it's happening elsewhere, like on social media, that sounds more like a problem for those communities, and is maybe not at all relevant to this thread?

 

I think trying to add stuff into the Game Gear games as well would've just lead to even more headaches, considering the stuff we got now still has some untouched issues. Imagine throwing a potentially confused attempt at Game Gear romhacking on top of that. They struggle maintaining the existing Retro Engine versions up to fixes, I don't think we'd see much get done if we quadrupled that load.

But yeah, fair point. Origins Plus is weird to me because it has caring fixes for small specific things you'd think they'd overlook like Knuckles getting his KIS2 title card back and Spin Dashing out of a glide in all games, and the spring no longer sending you into Spikes in Metropolis Zone. But way more obvious issues like the pixel blur, the non-S3&K Drop Dash still having animation frames of the Spin Dash it's hiding and S3&K music resetting with a 1-Up are still present, even beyond stubborn weird Sonic Team decisions like Lives/Coins and the save system. I'd guess the former is what Headcannon was allowed to suggest updates for while the latter is on Sonic Team's end and just doesn't seem to be acknowledged by them despite being like, easy mod-level fixes, perhaps because they were too busy making a weird stereo sound effect for the Game Gear games that you oddly disable by setting your system's sound to mono (on Switch and PC, at least). I remember someone being sceptical HC were even the ones to add Amy/SCD Knuckles beyond the necessary sprite work based on their Tweets describing it, but IDK, Amy doesn't have a weirdly disguised Spin Dash for her Drop Dash equivalent in that case, just a different take on it. Amy/Knuckles being implemented in SCD just fine as well, maybe it would've taken at least a few helpful notes from HC for Sonic Team to possibly do that, but I could be horribly wrong.

I'm trying to be positive with Origins Plus here, Amy across the games is a neat alternative to Sonic's kit with different benefits/weaknesses (especially with a Tails option for most games too) and I can't wait to do a Knuckles in SCD run, and there are some valid fixes they did do like giving the games THREE jump buttons once again. But then I see a notorious error in how Sonic w/ Tails getting 6 Chaos Emeralds in S1 will STILL crash the game (unless you start a run off with the Special Stage first from the Level Select), despite them simultaneously adding Amy w/ Tails as an option for the game in the same Level Select menu and the issue oddly not being present with them as far as I can tell. Presumably why Sonic & Tails was no longer a default option in Origins.

https://twitter.com/TomGyroid/status/1672601438520762368?s=20

This legitimately screws the game and people don't even know because they're not even aware Sonic w/ Tails is still a secret option in S1, it's so weird. It's also kinda crazy to still not have Knuckles w/ Tails as an option beyond S2 if Amy can have him, like do they not want Knuckles to access the other paths in S3&K through exclusive use of Tails Assist? He can already do that anyways with the Super Form flight cheat code, though that is just a cheat code. And the lack of Tails partnering in SCD is also kinda disappointing, there's no reason not to at this point other than porting the Tails AI and QA testing or whatever. Really makes me wish Origins Plus had just one more post-update grab bag of fun new cheat codes for all games like Mania and vanilla Origins had that Headcannon had worked on alongside a few more now year-old requested fixes, the clock is ticking on support for this thing now that Plus has come out, but a man can dream.

Also, don't know if anyone else has picked up on this, but there's no unique S1 or S2 title screen for Amy like there was in RSDK S1 and KIS2 respectively, it's just Sonic's S1 title screen that sticks out like a sore thumb with the unique ones for Tails/Knuckles/broken Sonic & Tails. That's lame, it's not like A+Start wasn't making new big sprites for Amy in S1/S2/S3&K/New Blue Spheres' win screens. Maybe either it didn't make sense to include that if it wasn't something already a part of an existing game title screen?

 

Are they struggling? I feel like the things that aren't getting fixed and the improvements that aren't being made are both products of negligence, not a lack of capability.

 

Fair, but tomato tomato, I wouldn't be crazy on them having even more games to also not fix certain issues of, though yeah the fix effort does seem a bit lacking even without those games to worry about rather than spreading their focus too thin over multiple things.

 

But they're already not fixing the GG games.

 

Obviously people shouldn't be assholes about it, but I can't say I don't get the thought process of "please don't enable a series I like lowering its standards". It's frustrating when you want a game to do better but you feel drowned out by people loudly calling it "good enough".

I'll probably wait for the Plus DLC to go on sale, at any rate. Between the continued lack of clears/saves pre-3, the still-funky 3&K music, and Amy's bizarre implementation, I'm not exactly chomping at the bit return to Origins.

 

I'd love to see a specific example of someone telling another person to shut up for liking Origins.

 

That's the fun part. There isn't one. They just don't like that people are responding to them with valid criticism.

 

Maybe it means fans are less interested in the DLC than they were in the base game...

 

Frontiers free Update 2 also dropped.